3 Dead in Sailing Yacht Crash in Race from Newport California to Mexico. - Page 3 - SailNet Community

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  #21  
Old 04-29-2012
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re: 3 Dead in Sailing Yacht Crash in Race from Newport California to Mexico.

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Originally Posted by markleyg View Post
Here we go. Speculating on these poor lost souls. Did they die cause they were too macho to turn on the motor? Why were the dummies going through shipping lanes? Surely they did something wrong. Guess what guys. We have no idea what happened yet and it is extremely disrespectful to be disparaging these fines sailors when we don't even know if they did anything wrong. How about letting this get investigated before we start pointing fingers at our own fellow lost sailors.
Not sure there is much to investigate unless AIS can identify any ships in that area at that time, have them hauled and inspected for the same kind of paint on their bottom that the sail boat had, somewhat unlikely? In any event, it appears that something big ran them down and they are not here to describe what they did or did not do or what they did or did not use. Pretty much the end of the story.

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re: 3 Dead in Sailing Yacht Crash in Race from Newport California to Mexico.

Plenty to investigate. The sailboat was being tracked and its signal was lost. If they were hit by a legal commercial vessel their GPS tracking records will be compared to the sailboat track. Of course, if it was by an illegal Mexican vessel we may never know. Another possibility is a USN submarine. They surface at the mouth of San Diego bay all the time and sailboats make no noise. But even that scenario would have records.
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Old 04-29-2012
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re: 3 Dead in Sailing Yacht Crash in Race from Newport California to Mexico.

Four man crew standing 2-on-2 watches with on-watch, 1 up/1 down. Charter boat with neither radar nor AIS, nor radar reflectors, nor mast-head tri-color lights I'll guess. Night sailing south with moon to the southwest 35ļ above the horizon at 0100 Saturday AM. Maybe a few beers with dinner dulling senses and and tired watch-standers after 18+ hours of sailing already less than alert, maybe looking around every 10-15 minutes while a southbound freighter/coaster is to the northwest making 20 knts and covering 3 miles every 9 minutes. Freighter/coaster watch-standers looking southerly (maybe) into moon-light reflections off the water making it hard to see yacht's likely sole, near water level, running light, and little or no radar return on the scope.

Frankly, by the time the watch-stander aboard the yacht would have heard the bow-wave of that ship behind him, he likely wouldn't have had time to do anything more than yell "Oh Shi(p)". Maybe enough time for the below deck watch-stander to make it to the cockpit before they were hit.

A 37' boat wouldn't even be noticed aboard the ship--maybe a little shudder as the debris went through the props.

Horrible. Absolutely horrible. Hopefully it was over quickly for those guys.

Maybe AIS ship tracks from San Diego can determine which ships went through the wreck zone and when--maybe there'll be paint-scrapes on the bows/hull as in the case of the yacht run down off Hong Kong a few years ago.

There but for the Grace....go we all.

I wonder whether the Coast Guard will now decide to ban ocean racing in SoCal.
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re: 3 Dead in Sailing Yacht Crash in Race from Newport California to Mexico.

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Originally Posted by markleyg View Post
Plenty to investigate. The sailboat was being tracked and its signal was lost. If they were hit by a legal commercial vessel their GPS tracking records will be compared to the sailboat track. Of course, if it was by an illegal Mexican vessel we may never know. Another possibility is a USN submarine. They surface at the mouth of San Diego bay all the time and sailboats make no noise. But even that scenario would have records.
Right, I mentioned the AIS as a possibility of identifying the ship. It would be interesting to follow the scenario if the ship was identified. Even more interesting if it was one of our submarines. Mexican vessel, legal or otherwise, complicated. However, nothing will bring the people back, wrong place at the wrong time.

Paul T
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re: 3 Dead in Sailing Yacht Crash in Race from Newport California to Mexico.

N2E inspects the boats, radar reflectors are required and failing to use one is 60 minutes penalty. If it was Theo, he had a radar reflector; he protested us in 2009 for failing to turn in our engine log on time. I have seen his boat, albeit several years ago, and it was well kept.

Also highly doubt USN as 1) they already sunk a fishing boat with a sub, and 2) they are well aware of the N2E race. I doubt they make the same mistake twice.
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re: 3 Dead in Sailing Yacht Crash in Race from Newport California to Mexico.

On accident in 65 years would certainly not warrant a cancellation of an international yacht race. Also, the Coast Guard would not have that authority. For the moment, we still are a free country with the rights to accept our own risk.
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re: 3 Dead in Sailing Yacht Crash in Race from Newport California to Mexico.

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Originally Posted by markleyg View Post
Here we go. Speculating on these poor lost souls. Did they die cause they were too macho to turn on the motor? Why were the dummies going through shipping lanes? Surely they did something wrong. Guess what guys. We have no idea what happened yet and it is extremely disrespectful to be disparaging these fines sailors when we don't even know if they did anything wrong. How about letting this get investigated before we start pointing fingers at our own fellow lost sailors.
X2. I know it is in the interest of any risky sport to analyze accidents such as this but that is far different than outright speculation. Remember that family and friends of the deceased may be reading this and comments without information can be very upsetting. Again, analysis is very good and helpful, outright speculation like drinking or too macho to motor is a bit on the early side. Those can be very good discussions, but should be separated from an account of dead sailors. Rest in Peace.
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re: 3 Dead in Sailing Yacht Crash in Race from Newport California to Mexico.

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Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
In my earlier post I described our experience in SF Bay. The day was clear, about lunch time, in the winter, very little boat traffic on the Bay. The ship never blew it's whistle, or varied it's speed or course, I can only imagine the skipper assumed a boat our size would have a motor and that we would get out of the way. Had our motor not started we would have been run down. Yes, they go really fast.

Paul T
You are right, they travel fast but they don't alter speed or course. How hard is getting out of the way if you really pay attention? At night and with bad visibility an AIS or a radar can make the difference. With waves it is really difficult to "see" a small sailboat....at least for me in my radar. A ship is a big spot, a sailing boat in the middle of 30ft waves is a small signal that turns in and out...as some of the bigger waves.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 04-29-2012 at 08:00 PM.
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re: 3 Dead in Sailing Yacht Crash in Race from Newport California to Mexico.

It is such a tragedy followed so close by what happened in San Fran. Lets hope some answers are forthcoming, but it still will not make up for the fact that 4 folks lost their lives during a race.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markleyg View Post
Here we go. Speculating on these poor lost souls. Did they die cause they were too macho to turn on the motor? Why were the dummies going through shipping lanes? Surely they did something wrong. Guess what guys. We have no idea what happened yet and it is extremely disrespectful to be disparaging these fines sailors when we don't even know if they did anything wrong. How about letting this get investigated before we start pointing fingers at our own fellow lost sailors.
If u are referring to my post I NEVER said they were too macho to turn the motor on. I actually asked a GENERAL question about racing and if they did or did not do it. I don't know why happened to these guys and it's situation. I simply want to learn and be a safer sailor.
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