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  #41  
Old 05-04-2012
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Re: engine-less

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post
Engine less is pretty easy ('specially with a 2hp), it's using a disgusting composting head that's extremely difficult.

Best of luck op, just go with the wind and tides and try not to be beholden to timetables.

Oh, and get good ground tackle including an emergency brake (quickly deployable stern anchor).
Would you start a new thread please and let us know the issues with the composting head, brand, problems what you plan to do.
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  #42  
Old 05-04-2012
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Re: engine-less

David,
Check here: What happened to Chris & Cate?
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  #43  
Old 05-05-2012
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Re: engine-less

In college I sailed and raced 44 ft yawls that were engineless. We tied up to buoys and it wasn't an issue. I recall a race where the seams opened up and an engine would have helped. I have a 21 ft half decked skiff that we cruise on... a Dovekie. I use 10 ft oars and oarlocks (Bristol Bronze) that are high enough so that I can row standing up and row facing forward. This works well for areas where the tide is small and you're mostly trying to get around the harbor or moorage. Where there are tidal currents of distances involved you've got to be able to sail the distance or have power, my opinion. I've looked into longer oars to use for single oar sculling but they're hard to find. If you're going there check out groups that row longboats or whaleboats, they use long steering oars.
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  #44  
Old 05-05-2012
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Re: engine-less

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
There are a couple of day boats that come out of Newport that scoop up a couple of dozen tourists for a one hour tour of East Passage. Out and back all day long. You might think that two sailboats meetings would honor published stand on rules, but they will run you down no matter who has rights. Perhaps, because they are technically a commercial vessel they have rights over another sailboat, but a stranger wouldn't know. I've speculated that, after a few weeks of jockeying tourists, they want to die.
From time to time one meets people that are less than considerate. When they run someone down that couldn't get out of the way I think there is a rule that says something like "a vessel that is last able to avoid a collision is the burdened vessel", assuming their draft or maneuverability allows that. A Schooner is not a ship. Perhaps a complaint to the local CG office might help?

Paul T
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  #45  
Old 05-05-2012
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Not sure if i qualify but my sailing depends on engine-less operations OFTEN, I have the worse luck with motors, inboard, outboard, electric...they all seem to fail me at "just-the-wrong-time". I have had to scramble for sail more then should be for any scotch drinker. So what have I learned....1st point - you CAN go too slow....but its really hard to. As long as you have forward movement you can steer, the slower you go, the longer it takes to effect direction so start early. 2nd point- learn to spin on a dime and drop sail...even with very little speed you can usually get a pretty sharp turn. Try it out in an open bayway, use a coke bottle on a string weighted to the bottom as your aiming point and practice sticking your nose to the bottle. (these points are also rescue maneuvers for MOB. 3rd point is critical. Have your rear anchor out and line garbaged for quick deployment BEFORE you come in to dock, They really work if you can get to them and sometimes no matter how bad you want to sail in, you cant.
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  #46  
Old 05-06-2012
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Re: engine-less

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
There are a couple of day boats that come out of Newport that scoop up a couple of dozen tourists for a one hour tour of East Passage. Out and back all day long. You might think that two sailboats meetings would honor published stand on rules, but they will run you down no matter who has rights. Perhaps, because they are technically a commercial vessel they have rights over another sailboat, but a stranger wouldn't know. I've speculated that, after a few weeks of jockeying tourists, they want to die.
Wasn't there a thread very recently that debunked the myth that commercial boats have rights over private ones? The only time when a commercial boat has rights is if it's engaged in fishing thus constraining maneuverability, is constrained by draft, or is in the marked shipping lanes going in the appropriate direction IN the lane.

Being commercial, in and of itself, doesn't give anyone rights, after all, how can anyone tell by looking at a boat if it's commercial and thus know to avoid it? The rules are all about location, direction of travel, shapes and lights.

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  #47  
Old 05-06-2012
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Re: engine-less

I'm a commercial day sailing tourist ketch and I've never heard of that nonsense about right of way. However, as a small vessel confronted with jerksatthehelm ,two choices; sort it out in court after the collision or follow the rule that says it's not who's right , it's who,s left and use the digit effectively. Avoiding collision is fairly important; shipping lanes ,tug and tow ; no engine ; gotta plan ahead. I sailed Thane for several years out of Victoria and up to Desolation before I capitulated for a diesel.

Last edited by Capt Len; 05-07-2012 at 12:46 AM.
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  #48  
Old 05-15-2012
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Re: engine-less

Many of the engineless sailing topics that pop up in forums have a similar theme. They start out with a, hopefully, honest request for info and viability of sailing without and engine. The topic quickly diverges into the requirement of an engine for safety or some other form of alternative propulsion.

But what I have always found interesting is that a fair number of posts claim the engine is needed for safety but then there are many other posts of peole who claim to be mostly engineless since their engine is so unreliable.

For all the examples like being becalmed in a shipping lane I never hear anyone worry about losing an engine while crossing a shipping lane. A good sailor can see the wind a long way ahead and know how long it will take to cross the lane and what their backup plans are. This is the case for countless examples for needing an engine for safety.

Now an engine as a schedule device... I get that.

Cheers and happy sailing, or motoring, or rowing, or whatever
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  #49  
Old 05-15-2012
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Re: engine-less

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrevans View Post
Many of the engineless sailing topics that pop up in forums have a similar theme. They start out with a, hopefully, honest request for info and viability of sailing without and engine. The topic quickly diverges into the requirement of an engine for safety or some other form of alternative propulsion.

But what I have always found interesting is that a fair number of posts claim the engine is needed for safety but then there are many other posts of peole who claim to be mostly engineless since their engine is so unreliable.

For all the examples like being becalmed in a shipping lane I never hear anyone worry about losing an engine while crossing a shipping lane. A good sailor can see the wind a long way ahead and know how long it will take to cross the lane and what their backup plans are. This is the case for countless examples for needing an engine for safety.

Now an engine as a schedule device... I get that.

Cheers and happy sailing, or motoring, or rowing, or whatever
I have lost my engine in the shipping lanes, with three curise ships bearing down on me to boot. I had taken the in-laws out for a day-sail and since there was not even 1kt of wind, we decided to motor over to Seattle.

I was actually in the middle of the sentence "This engine has been really reliabl--- Clunk!" I sucked a 12ft golf putting run into and around the prop.

Since I wasn't crossing dangerously close in front of any traffic (I never do that under motor or sail) I had lots of time to raise the ships on their working channel and tell them of my new status as a "hazard to navigation." They could have cared less, they could see me.

Another time, when the engine did die on me by way of overheating we pulled out our drifter and used it to sail in 2kts of wind, and even sail with the wind forward of the beam, so that we could sail into anchor safely on the one shoal nearby rather than get washed up on a steep shore.

We decided then and there that the light air sails WERE SAFETY EQUIPMENT, and we continue to think of them as such.

MedSailor
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  #50  
Old 05-15-2012
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Re: engine-less

+1 on the drifter as a safety device. In light winds we keep ours clipped to the mast ready to launch with sheets setup and stowed. All I need to do is drop and tie off our non overlapping jib and change the halyard, hoist and trim and we are sailing in a different gear.

For our boat I prefer a drifter to an asym since I can sail close hauled. At first I didn't think I would tack this 170% drifter much but now I do it all the time. So easy actually that in really light air we have short tacked back into Fisherman Bay on Lopez Island.

They are great sail to have and add many options for light wind sailing.

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