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  #11  
Old 05-24-2012
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Re: Running Lines To The Cockpit....need some advice and ideas?

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Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
The traveler mount that you have may need some modifications (read cut outs) to do this, but it isn't particularly hard. Just flip the blocks you currently have upside down, and where the cam cleat is take it off. Run the line to the gooseneck, then down to the deck.

You will probably need to add a deck organizer between about half way between the mast and the traveler to turn all the lines into the cut out in the traveler mount (those holes you cut out), then to a row of rope clutches just in front of the cabin top winch. You can run as many lines to the winch as you like, but any more than 5 gets very crowded on the winch. If you want to bring more back than that do the same thing on the other side.
This is one way to get fair lead for all the lines if you have only one winch.

This boat was originally set up with two cabin top winches each side. The winch feeder sits on the same place as one of the old winches (this could not be used with the dodger up.
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Old 05-24-2012
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Re: Running Lines To The Cockpit....need some advice and ideas?

I think less is more. Simple is easier. Definetly color code your lines, blue= main hallyard, red= port jib sheet, etc. You'll know at glance what line to grab, more important you can tell someone what line to pull on or slack by refering to the color. I think it's wize to stand at the mast and deal with hallyards and reefing there. Once and a while I notice something that needs my attention while I'm up there that I would'nt of seen otherwise. I've had much more problems dealing with cockpit run hallyards than mast winched. Just my opinion.
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Old 05-24-2012
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Re: Running Lines To The Cockpit....need some advice and ideas?

That photo in post 11 looks a lot like the aft end of my cabin. In my case, I have seven line locks each side, although not all of them are in use. (Stbd: 1 Spin hlyd, 2 Stbd jib halyard, 3 Main hlyd, 4 1st reef clew,5 2nd reef tack, 6 outhaul and 7 vang- Port: 1 Port Jib hlyd, 2 1st reef tack, 3 2nd reef clew 4 Pole lift, 5 pole downhwl, 6 cunningham and 7 spare.) I also have my jibsheet lead car adjusters, backstay adjuster, and jib furler line lead to the cockpit at the coamings, and my mainsheet and traveler adjusted from within the cockpit as well.

For cruising with a crew, running all the lines back to the cockpit can be seen as a great luxury that may not be worth the time or trouble. In my case, I have my boat optimized for single-handed performance sailing and single-handed racing and so ran everything aft. For that purpose, in my opinion its the only way to go.

I will freely admit that what follows is my own personal opinion and you may feel free to complete disagree with me based on how you sail your boat. If your deck plan works for you, more power to you. There is not one right answer here for everyone, but here is how I personally see this for the way that I sail my boat.

1. Winches and cleats on the mast or deck are dangerous when single-handing. They make too easy a target for a stray sheet to snag on. Alone, clearing a fouled, heavily loaded sheet can be a dangerous business and a risk I personally consider unnecessary to take. I have made guards over the years to try to keep lines from hanging up, and they work most of the time, but sooner or later you will find yourself involuntarily hove to with a heavily loaded sheet needing to be cleared.

2. If you are going to sail single-handed in all kinds of conditions (which I do), you need to be able to quickly and safely reef on the fly, on almost any point of sail, without getting away from reaching distance to the helm in an emergency. There is no time to get back to the helm and feather up when that 20 knot faster, vertical gust hits and knocks you flat while you are on the cabin top. (I know some of you think its impudent to be out single-handing in those conditions. You are probaly right.)

3.A line that is hard to adjust won't get adjusted. If the control lines are in easy reach they are more likely to be adjusted properly, and that can mean a lot more comfort and speed. It often does mean a boat well sailed, vs sloppy seamanship.

4. It is nearly impossible to raise and douse a spinnaker from the mast single-handed without a sock, and I consider a sock a bad idea for single-handing since an hourglass is too easy to get with a sock, and too hard to get out single hand making the drop much more dangerous. When everything is led back to the cockpit, and without a sock, teh raise is quick and right from the cockpit you can prefeed the chute and have the sheet and guy right at hand as the chute goes up. The douse goes under the boom and into the companionway, neat as could be.

5. The whole spagetti in the cockpit arguement is totally specious to me. No experienced and responsible sailor would pile all their control lines on the deck at the base of the mast without carefully coiling them and securing them. When you performance sail single-handed you need to be even more disciplined about coiling lines and keeping them clear of each other. There is no other choice if you want to be safe. In doing so the lines should be figure 8 coiled and placed so they can run freely. With some care and thoughtfulness, finding safe ways to place coiled lines becomes second nature just in the same way it does stowing lines up at the base of the mast.

6. I hear people voicing concern about the frictional losses of the extra turning blocks leading the lines aft. There is a little truth in that, but frankly with moden hardware there is a lot less frictional losses than is found in the mid-boom mainsheet and people seem perfectly willing to live with that for reasons that are far beyond my imagination.

7. Whoever said running the outhaul back to the cockpit is unnecessary must sail on only one point of sail in steady winds. The most used lines on my boat are the sheets and traveler of course, but close behind are the jib leads, outhaul and backstay which get cycled with pretty much any change in course, or wind speed and direction. I do agree with them about the cunningham, which I do not even rig on my boat.

But then again, all of the above may just be me.

Jeff
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  #14  
Old 05-24-2012
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Re: Running Lines To The Cockpit....need some advice and ideas?

I will show you what i did, to Heron, when i return from sailing in Belize. Weather not so great, rain or not much wind to sail a Cat, but great time!

Capn Ron
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Old 05-24-2012
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Re: Running Lines To The Cockpit....need some advice and ideas?

Every thing Jeff say's make sense. I single hand with no engine all over the Western and Southern Carib. My boat is small and modest and I've never raced anything but the weather. I have 2 hallyards, 2 jib sheets and a main sheet. I'm in all conditions, in all types of sea, all the time. Every once in a while my jib sheet gets caught on my mast winch when I tack. I go up there and un hook it. I fly an asymetrical when the wind is light. Sometimes I deliver big fancy boats with a million lines run aft, winches here and there, adjustable backstay's, fairleads, jam cleats etc. I usually raise the main, unfurl the jib and adjust the sheets as needed and never touch any of that other stuff. I appreciate other dudes do it different, or more percisely. What ever works for you is what you should do.
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Re: Running Lines To The Cockpit....need some advice and ideas?

In Southern California where the OP sails his Santana 30 - the winds are just about as predictable as they come.
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Old 05-24-2012
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Re: Running Lines To The Cockpit....need some advice and ideas?

Quote:
5. The whole spagetti in the cockpit arguement is totally specious to me. No experienced and responsible sailor would pile all their control lines on the deck at the base of the mast without carefully coiling them and securing them. When you performance sail single-handed you need to be even more disciplined about coiling lines and keeping them clear of each other. There is no other choice if you want to be safe. In doing so the lines should be figure 8 coiled and placed so they can run freely. With some care and thoughtfulness, finding safe ways to place coiled lines becomes second nature just in the same way it does stowing lines up at the base of the mast.-JeffH
Wholeheartedly agree with Jeffs post.

As a person who does singlehand a lot I want everything led back to where I am safest..The cockpit. The least amount of time I spend exposed on the deck, the better, especially when the wind pipes up. I am extremely concientious when by myself about where are the lines are.

Lead your lines back. Stay safe. Safety first...always and forever.

Dave
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  #18  
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Re: Running Lines To The Cockpit....need some advice and ideas?

I agree with safety first, I'm clipped in if out the companion way 100% of the time. I single hand on 1000 mile voyages and am able to access all points of my boat, from the mast head to the bottom of my keel at any time safely. I've re-attached my centerboard cable in the middle of the Yucatan channel, and fetched a lost hallyard half way between Jamacia and Columbia. I don't have roller furl so I have to go to the for deck to raise and lower head sail. leaving the cockpit is a part of my routine deck and rig inspection ( safety). I've discovered a multitude of little problems that I would have missed if I did'nt go to the mast to reef or change up. Being out there on the deck is a part of the whole experience.
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Old 05-25-2012
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Re: Running Lines To The Cockpit....need some advice and ideas?

My Santana 30 has all the halyards lead aft to the cabintop winches. Because it is an old race boat it has 2 spin halyards, 2 genoa halyards and the main halyard. The spin pole topping lift and the tack line for the asymetric spinnaker also come aft. Those 6 lines come via deck organizers, 3 per side, through slots cut in the traveler riser, to triple Spinlock XTS rope clutches. (The best clutches on the market IMHO!) That allows any halyard to be put on one of the two cabin top winches. The pole topping lift passes just beside the riser terminating at a cam cleat, and the other side has the baby stay adjuster passing beside the riser to another cam cleat. Even with all those lines coming aft, it just takes a couple of sheet bags to keep it all out of the way. When I am sailing, the tails of all the halyards get thrown down the companionway. I'm sure that would drive some people crazy, but as a racer, a bit of spaghetti doesn't bother me!

If you want to put halyards onto those winches you will definitely have to go through the traveler riser in order to have a good load angle. Obviously you have less halyards than I do so the spaghetti factor will be less.

With the vang it is a good idea to have it within reach. When you are sailing on a reach or running in heavy weather, the best way to quickly de-power the main if you get into trouble is to release the vang. For that reason many race boats run the vang aft on both sides, so that it is in easy reach on either tack. They would be prime candidates to go either side of the riser to cam cleats.

Next time I am down at the boat I will take some photos so you can see what I am talking about.
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Old 05-25-2012
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Re: Running Lines To The Cockpit....need some advice and ideas?

SchockT yes please take pics for me....Here is what my deck looks like.....I have a similar setup on the other side. Looks like I have a 2 line organizer there. My main halyard is the top most line in the pic. The one led aft is not being used. Its one of the spinnaker halyards and its not in use at the time. Maybe I can just reroute it and give it a try and see how it works.

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