bury the rails...wait a minute - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 23 Old 05-29-2012
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Re: bury the rails...wait a minute

It also depends on the condition of the boat.
If the standing rigging is 20+ years old. The chain plates 20+ years and the running rigging looking sad. Deck a little squishy, hull deck joint has a few openings and the bulk head tabbing adrift. Sails a little soft.

My favorite way to find out what needs fixing is to run it as hard as possible and see what breaks or leaks.
I always have the camera rolling.

PS. I always do this trick on other peoples boats.
It helps if their is a race so when something breaks you have an excuse.
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post #12 of 23 Old 05-29-2012
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Re: bury the rails...wait a minute

I recall in a sailing course a few years ago being a little miffed atthe instructor making us reef the main in a good blow (I wanted to go out and have fun!). Once we got going, I was amazed at how we were whipping along with a comfortable heel and actually passing boats in full sail but heeled right over!

I am not really from Toronto


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post #13 of 23 Old 05-29-2012
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Re: Husband is doing it "wrong"

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjazzdad View Post
What everyone is telling you is true - burying the rail has no real danger and certainly no speed advantage. I take exception with Dr B's statement though; any modern, well designed and properly built boat shoud be able to handle the stresses of extreme heel and weather helm without problem. For example, the rig can generally support the weight of the boat (it HAS to, if you think about a knock-down). For example, there are documented cases of boats that have been caught by the mast in lift bridges that sustained only superficial damage. Most modern spade rudders are built very strongly, since they are supported only at one end. A keel or skeg hung rudder will be stronger still. Only abuse such as grounding or hitting a submerged object are likely to damage a well built modern rudder.
Jimjazzda - Point I was making is that by "burying-the-rail", the stresses on the rig and a much higher than when the boat is well balanced. You are right that "properly" built boats should be able to handle the forces on the rig and rudder, but over time things corrode and fatigue and then that is where the rudder post snaps or the front stay or furler shackle breaks, etc.

I was in a race last year on a J105 and the fitting that held on the one of the main sheet blocks while we were heeled over in 25 kt winds snapped and the boom went flying with such force that the skipper almost lost control. Another time I was on Frers 36 in 25-30 kt winds and the clew of the main ripped and that was a mess. Another time on a IMX-40 and we were so overpowered with a 150% genny that the main and boom just bounced around for the entire race on the upwind legs, because any attempt to trim it yielded more heel than the 25 deg we already were. Stuff usually breaks in wind conditions when your "burying-the-rail".

Folks that race typically won't reef a sail if the wind picks up in a race, which means they will finish the race overpowered, something will break, or they will get by wilth inefficient sail trim (main eased/leach flapping, etc.,) Once the race is over, they may put in a reef or throw on smaller headsail, but sometimes that is impractical. I asked a J105 skipper once leaving the dock, knowing the winds were going to be in the 20-25kt range during the race, if we were going to reef the main to make it easier to handle as I was in charge of the working the main. He said, I don't think we have ever reefed the main. Pretty stressful sail for me as I was constantly fighting the main to maintain helm for the skipper.

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post #14 of 23 Old 05-29-2012
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Re: bury the rails...wait a minute

bury the rails.....

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post #15 of 23 Old 05-29-2012
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Re: bury the rails...wait a minute

I never found a good reason to bury the rails! Just never seemed to make a lot of sense, especially when you're looking at the knot-meter and realize that when the rail is buried you tend to lose speed. It not a macho thing, for me, either. Too much strain on everything, too many expensive items that could end up getting busted, and most of all, my loving wife of nearly a half-century would kick my a$$ when that first drop of water crossed above the rub-rail.

Sailing is supposed to be fun--not a white knuckle ride.

Good Luck,

Gary
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post #16 of 23 Old 05-29-2012
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Re: bury the rails...wait a minute

I explained everything previously said to my wife but she still didn't like it. My wife and I and our two young daughters often sailed together with my Dad. He knew it wasn't the most effective way to sail but he just loved to bury the rail and watch the kids squeal and see my wife dive for cover below. Kind of like smoking the tires, not necessarily good, but fun. He used to call me a whimp for wanting to reef our Coronado 25 in San Francisco Bay in the summer.

Paul T
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post #17 of 23 Old 05-29-2012 Thread Starter
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bury the rails...wait a minute

Thanks everyone for helping me feel more comfortable with this. We have replaced everything on the outside, all rigging and parts that needed to be replaced. Our boat is 35 years old. The chain stays are in the fiberglass of the boat and seem to be fine. My husband has really never buried the rails like the photo. Loved the photo. Just Water splashing on the windows while I was inside. I need to get
comfortable by more sailing and learning..
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post #18 of 23 Old 05-29-2012
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Re: bury the rails...wait a minute

Well, are you a man or a mouse???









Quote:
peep
[Oops, I forgot that the OP is a lady.]


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1998 Catalina 250WK Take Five (at Anchorage Marina, Essington, on the Delaware River)
1994 Mason 44 Firefly on loan from my BFF (West River, Galesville, MD)
1991 15' Trophy (Lake Wallenpaupack)
1985 14' Phantom (Lake Wallenpaupack)

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post #19 of 23 Old 05-29-2012
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Re: bury the rails...wait a minute

To be technical there is a stability equation if you really want to know when you'll pass the point of no return. The bigger tonnage captains licences are all about stability. GM, TRANSVERSE META CENTER, FREE SURFACE EQUATOINS, CENTER OF BOYANCY. It's scary how many sailors don't know that stuff. Unless your pointing high and really trying to make an important mark there is no reason to bury your rails.

" Some are boat wise and some are other wise"

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post #20 of 23 Old 05-29-2012
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Re: bury the rails...wait a minute

It's a fun way to wash the webs from the toe rail

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