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  #41  
Old 06-08-2012
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Re: State Sen. Kehoe drops anti fouling paint bill

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Originally Posted by Fstbttms View Post
So you think that left to its own devices, industry will protect the environment? Bwahahahahaha!
Happens all the time when an industry figures out that cannibalizing the industries resources isn't a good idea for that specific industry. (look at hunting, farming) It sounds like your trying to do just that by promoting a bottom paint that is copper free. More power to you, I'm guessing no government official is making you do that.

Are gov't regulations needed in some cases? Yes, but regulating just to gain control over an issue is unnecessary. California loves to do that which is why many business are leaving this once great state.

However, you fail to address the main point in my post, other then posting a picture. The Government has stepped in to "regulate" the painting of boat hulls but grants exceptions to the main polluters. The contaminants from pleasure boats is miniscule when compared to those coming from the larger ships and other sources (brake dust). Passing a law to control a very small part of a larger issue isn't about helping the environment or anything else. It's about political control or advancement of someone's career or agenda. (or maybe a cousin has a new paint he wants a market for).

So, again, common sense is winning out here.

This thread is taking a turn away from sailing so I'll bow out here.
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  #42  
Old 06-08-2012
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Re: State Sen. Kehoe drops anti fouling paint bill

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Originally Posted by Fstbttms View Post
So you think that left to its own devices, industry will protect the environment? Bwahahahahaha!
I already replied to the free market v govt above.

I'm curious, are you inherently in favor of banning copper because you believe it to be bad for the environment, or are you in favor of banning copper because you fear the alternative will be banning your means of making a living? I think you've said its more the later.
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  #43  
Old 06-08-2012
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Re: State Sen. Kehoe drops anti fouling paint bill

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
I already replied to the free market v govt above.

I'm curious, are you inherently in favor of banning copper because you believe it to be bad for the environment, or are you in favor of banning copper because you fear the alternative will be banning your means of making a living? I think you've said its more the later.
Don't get me wrong-I (and I think I can speak for all hull cleaners) love copper-based anti fouling paints. They work well and make our jobs easier. It's a great anti fouling technology. The reason I and the California Professional Divers Association advocate for non-copper paints and legislation that woul reduce or eliminate copper in anti fouling paints is because the USEPA has mandated the state of California bring the hundreds of water bodies currently impaired for copper into compliance with federal water quality criteria. In-water hull cleaning activities have been identified as a source of this copper. So yes, our main motivation is self-preservation. But it is also true that none of us would be aware that the copper from anti fouling paints is damaging the environment if it weren't for government agencies keeping an eye on this sort of thing. And clean water and a healthy marine environment is something we as boaters should all be concerned about.
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  #44  
Old 06-08-2012
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Not so much banning his livelihood as it would be further regulation imposed on him, so it really a matter of who's pocket this non fix solution will come out of.

Personally I think we should wait until a) they know the source(s) and b) have a reasonable, cost effective, reliable and across the board solution
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  #45  
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Re: State Sen. Kehoe drops anti fouling paint bill

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Personally I think we should wait until a) they know the source(s) and b) have a reasonable, cost effective, reliable and across the board solution
In a perfect world we could do that. Unfortunately, in the real world there may never be an equivalent non-copper solution and the clock is already ticking for the state to solve the copper issue. Waiting until they invent a product that satisfies your unrealistic desires is not likely to happen. And what are you gonna do when your hull cleaner is regulated out of business (which is much closer to happening in San Diego than anywhere else in the country)? Go to the yard every month and pay them to haul your boat and pressure wash it? Good luck getting that done for a buck and a quarter a foot.
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  #46  
Old 06-08-2012
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Re: State Sen. Kehoe drops anti fouling paint bill

PoopdeckPappy --- doing what your propose would alleviate the need to legislate and CONTROL ... better for the government to just apply 'stark authoritarianism' and whether or not the scientific basis or assumptions are correct.
Its just plain cheaper and faster for 'feel good stuff' and such wins more votes than searching for 'scientific truth'.
And, of course the 'government' NEVER gives a SHIp about what the cost of legislation/rule making to the citizens amounts to.

The 'cost of diminishing returns' is certainly not in the 'government' lexicon. As soon as one intellectual hypocrite legislator applies the word 'children' to bottom paint, the 'game will be over'.
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Re: State Sen. Kehoe drops anti fouling paint bill

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Okay, let's not get into a spewing contest.

The specific private sector that creates the problem is obviously not going to be very good at correcting it. Just like the government isn't very good at correcting the problems it creates and it perhaps more adept at blaming others.

However, I do agree that government correcting a problem that the citizens want fixed is extraordinarily inefficient.
Would you classify the EPA as ineffective? Do you know how much they have cleaned up waters and bays? The concentration of most heavy metals in California estuaries is down about 400 times since the clean water act. It really has totally transformed most of our lakes, rivers, and estuaries. SF Bay has gone from being technically dead, to the return of the Harbour Porpoise last year.

I'm quite happy to see this bill gone but to say that government regulation is ineffective at reducing pollution is just ridiculous. It's the only effective way.
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  #48  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fstbttms:882366
And what are you gonna do when your hull cleaner is regulated out of business (which is much closer to happening in San Diego than anywhere else in the country)? .
San Diego and the Shelter Island basin in particular has, according to the last samples, already exceeded the copper reduction threshold set by the state and it had little to do with non copper paints, there just hasn't been that many rec boaters jumping on it.

Now most all state gov boats have changed over but again, it was at our cost, not theirs

So I'm not ( as of yet ) willing to get on the same bandwagon as you
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  #49  
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Re: State Sen. Kehoe drops anti fouling paint bill

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Originally Posted by poopdeckpappy View Post
San Diego and the Shelter Island basin in particular has, according to the last samples, already exceeded the copper reduction threshold set by the state and it had little to do with non copper paints, there just hasn't been that many rec boaters jumping on it.
Yeah, I read that article in The Log too. The report it quoted was essentially a thesis project done by a college biology major, using very questionable data gathering criteria. I know, because I was in the room when she presented it to the Marina Interagency Coordinating Committee of the Cslifornia Coastal Commission in Sacramento. You'll notice that the governing state agency, the Regionsl Water Quality Control Board was conspicuously absent in commenting in the article. Maybe because they didn't sign off on the findings? The report is pretty much worthless, IMHO. In any event, the TMDL for SIYB calls for a 70% reduction in copper loading and we ain't nowhere near that yet.
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  #50  
Old 06-08-2012
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Re: State Sen. Kehoe drops anti fouling paint bill

i want mil spec paint.
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