How Far Do You Heel...? - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 90 Old 06-04-2012
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Re: How Far Do You Heel...?

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These are good answers... I don't "want" to heel excessivly, just wanted to get some numbers/data to back up my "guesstimations"..

Looks like (and felt like) 10*-12*-15* is the "range" to sail in... more is not better and maybe slower...

I've read many times "the boat will round up".. and want to believe it, also want to display confidence to crew without scareing them (or me)...and with the wife I would definetly sacrifice speed to keep her happy, hoping to build a confidence and love of sailing in her so we can do this awhile...

Then maybe some day when I have my logger friend, trucker, biker buddys and we're out doing Pirate Stuff... we can lean her over and see who screams like a little girl....
A more useful question might be "how much rudder will you allow to overcome weather helm". When I can no longer adjust our sail trim to reduce our rudder angle to less than 10-15 (max!), we reef the main or at least do a "Fisherman's reef" on short tacks. Dragging a laid-over rudder really slows you down. On our current boat (First 42), the foregoing is about 18-20 of heel. On our previous boat--Cal 2-29--a surfer, it was less.

FWIW...

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Last edited by svHyLyte; 06-04-2012 at 10:28 AM.
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post #12 of 90 Old 06-04-2012
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Re: How Far Do You Heel...?

10 to 15 degrees seem like the most efficient for my Morgan 33 O.I..

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post #13 of 90 Old 06-04-2012
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Re: How Far Do You Heel...?

my py tends to correct its self when she heels excessivly [curve of the hull i suppose]no matter how much rag i have up or what i'm doing with the rudder,but theres really no point in excessive heeling
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post #14 of 90 Old 06-04-2012
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Re: How Far Do You Heel...?

Squidd, as you were the only one comfortable with a keel boat's characteristics. Just a suggestion, don't tip the boat! until they are ready! Most people will never come back if the first experience was uncomfortable or scary. Example: "we went camping one time.. I was cold and wet the whole time... I was on his bike and he was doing 120.... scared me to death.... never again"
Just something for you to consider or you may find yourself sailing alone allot more.
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post #15 of 90 Old 06-04-2012
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Re: How Far Do You Heel...?

Enchantress was designed to sail at a 20 degree angle of heel. That produces the max waterline length this was a result of the old IOR rule that penalized waterline length.
That being said, the angle of heel always seems about double what it really is, especially to people not used to sailboats. You might consider puttin a clinometer in your cockpit so when people get worried you can point outy that your only at a 10 or 15 degree angle of heel. I did this when my wife started sailing and it seemed to have a really calming effect
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post #16 of 90 Old 06-04-2012
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Re: How Far Do You Heel...?

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Originally Posted by bloodhunter View Post
That being said, the angle of heel always seems about double what it really is, especially to people not used to sailboats. You might consider puttin a clinometer in your cockpit so when people get worried you can point outy that your only at a 10 or 15 degree angle of heel. I did this when my wife started sailing and it seemed to have a really calming effect
An another consideration; have the crew on the windward side, facing windward. That does two things:
1) It helps flatten the boat.
2) The crew is looking out, not down at the water rushing by.
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post #17 of 90 Old 06-04-2012
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Arrow Re: How Far Do You Heel...?

+1 with bloodhunter

Used to have a MacGregor 26M. Went to 20* at the slightest puff. Best way to ensure "she-who-must-be-obeyed" enjoyed sailing was to have the main sheet in her hands. She would dump air when we went too far over.

Now in the Bene, with a couple years experience, we know to adjust the sails and ensure our heel rarely goes beyond 18-20* no matter how heavy the wind.

Paul
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post #18 of 90 Old 06-04-2012
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There are two ranges that you need to be concerned with

Crew Comfort and Safety and Boat Performance; they are not necessarily the same range.

For most boats 10-20 deg heel is optimal for performance. Long overhang boat hulls need more heel, short ones less. However, most of the time, I do what the guests want until boat performance (extreme weather helm) comes into play. Some guest don't like a lot of heel, others are fine with it. The Admiral also says when she is "uncomfortable", but usually that is when we need to reef or or do a different point of sail to reduce weather helm.

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post #19 of 90 Old 06-04-2012
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Re: How Far Do You Heel...?

Is it a C22 or similar? (I noticed the centerboard reference). If so, be careful as those have been known to capsize and are really in between a keelboat and a dinghy. Ie, their point of diminishing stability is quite low and they may not come up from a serious knockdown.

However, if the boat is a rather typical keelboat, the boat's max righting moment is achieved around 60 degrees of heel, far more than you are likely to experience without a spinnaker in a blow. And once the boat hits 30 degrees on, the sails automatically start to depower.

I think cats are far less sensitive to being overtrimmed (I could be wrong). On a keelboat, if the main is sheeted too tight upwind you will heel more but not go as fast. Let out the main until it flogs, then just pull it in to where it's no longer stalling. A reverse "bubble" along the luff is ideal. Besides staying upright, this helps keep weatherhelm in check, and therefore keeps you off the rudder/break.

Typically you will heel over most right after a tack. In choppy and windy conditions especially the gust will hit before the boat has time to accelerate and the boat will heel way over. To avoid this (and avoid scaring the wife) you can let out the sheet a bit (inducing twist and reducing power) until the boat accelerates, then pull it back in.

As stated by plenty others, 15 degrees is normal, 20 is common and hitting 30-35 will happen in gusts esp if you don't reef early enough or release the sheet in time. Usually the rail will go under around 35, and this is entirely safe and normal in even "coastal" keelboats.

If you hit 45, most likely the rudder will loose its bite and the boat will automatically round up into the wind. To soothe the crew, show them the video of "hunter capsize" (in search) on youtube. These guys purposely over canvassed and over sheeted on a blustery day, even pulled on the boom to get the boat so heeled over as to round up. You see the rudder out of the water, and the boat just safely rounds right up. Just make sure the cockpit lockers have latches and are secured before trying that!
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post #20 of 90 Old 06-04-2012 Thread Starter
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Re: How Far Do You Heel...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deniseO30 View Post
Squidd, as you were the only one comfortable with a keel boat's characteristics. Just a suggestion, don't tip the boat! until they are ready! Most people will never come back if the first experience was uncomfortable or scary. Example: "we went camping one time.. I was cold and wet the whole time... I was on his bike and he was doing 120.... scared me to death.... never again"
Just something for you to consider or you may find yourself sailing alone allot more.
Oh no... not looking for maximum tip.... I remember taking her out on my chopper and saying "tap me if we go too fast"... I thought she was beating on me going "Faster -Faster"...when she really ment slow down You "Baster* You Baster*)...

I want this to go good... no scare offs...

Boat is 26' and 6500# shoal Keel with 500# swing keel doubling draft...I don't want to pull 15* if 20* will round up, but looks like we were just "gettin in the zone..." So it's OK to be confident to that level..

I've heard on the Paceship website 45*-50* before she "rounds up"...not that I'm going there but nice to know the safety margin...

Quote:
However, if the boat is a rather typical keelboat, the boat's max righting moment is achieved around 60 degrees of heel, far more than you are likely to experience without a spinnaker in a blow. And once the boat hits 30 degrees on, the sails automatically start to depower.
That's what "I'm" looking for... Promise not to scare the female/family crew at anything near that...But when the "boys come out to play"....all bets are off..

"Might as well take 'er out...If anything is gonna happen...It's gonna happen out there..."
"Captin Ron"
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