Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions. - Page 12 - SailNet Community
 73Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #111 of 126 Old 07-01-2012
Picnic Sailor
 
chall03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,801
Thanks: 24
Thanked 28 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
I think you answered your own question - many, if not most of the people who join the ARC do so precisely BECAUSE they are inexperienced at blue water sailing. Inexperience and a less than ideal boat for the purpose sort of go hand in hand.

Anyone who makes it across the Pacific, or even attempts it, is not likely to fall into that category.
I guess I did didn't I?? Aren't I clever

I don't know if I would go as far as you in saying most who do the ARC are inexperienced, but maybe it is more different kinds of perspectives and a different bluewater experience.

Not only have the guys coming into Bundaberg crossed the Pacific, most of them(The North Americans and Europeans on a circumnavigation) are also venturing onto the Indian Ocean and looking at rounding a pretty bad ass Cape. A very different kind of 'Bluewater' to doing the ARC. Most of them seem to be in custom builds/ heavily modified one offs or a expensive 'bluewater production boat' (Hallberg R/Swan/IslandPacket/Hylas/Ovni/Amel) I don't see many old faithfuls ( Valiant 40 et all), but then again Australia is an expensive place to visit, and budget conscious world cruisers probably sail right past.

The point still stands however that there are 'inexperienced' cruisers in modern production boats sailing across the Atlantic in large enough numbers to not be anecdotal, without really too many issues( Yes I know the ARC is not without incident).

'Life is either a daring adventure or nothing' - Helen Keller



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
chall03 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #112 of 126 Old 07-01-2012
Senior Member
 
CBinRI's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 919
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Uh-oh, now you've done it...

Not a single offering from Beneteau, Catalina, or Hunter makes his list... Oh, well - what does John Neal know about bluewater sailing, anyway? (grin)

As you say, "fairly comprehensive" is the operative word, there... FWIW, I'd take a Frers-designed Beneteau First Series from the 80's in a heartbeat to take me anywhere I'd care to sail...

And, while it's not my cup of tea at all, I'd have little hesitation delivering a Hunter HC-50, or a boat like Michael's 49, to a place like the Caribbean...

I thought the HC-50 was a pretty cool boat, you've gotta love a 50-footer that was offered with a tiller as an option... Probably one of the least popular models Hunter ever built, however - a case where "their market" spoke volumes...
Agreed about the 80s era Beneteau Firsts. The 42 is a very solid, fast and well-built boat.
CBinRI is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #113 of 126 Old 07-01-2012
Senior Member
 
CBinRI's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 919
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chall03 View Post
Are you guys suggesting that maybe sailnet might be wrong?

We have a member here who just completed a circumnavigation on a Hunter.....

Another guy just posted in a old thread about doing the ARC rally in his Catalina.

And if you look through the list of entries for the ARC you will find every second boat is a Bendyslow
Bendyslow? They make some very fast boats.

I still don't get using anecdotal examples of light boats crossing oceans as a justification for taking a coastal cruiser offshore. It is not wise. It doesn't make them bad boats. I think those who advocate taking a Hunter or Catalina across an ocean are doing their fellow sailors a disservice. And yes, I know it has been done and done a lot. Still doesn't make it wise.
smp likes this.
CBinRI is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #114 of 126 Old 07-01-2012
Picnic Sailor
 
chall03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,801
Thanks: 24
Thanked 28 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBinRI View Post
Bendyslow? They make some very fast boats.

I still don't get using anecdotal examples of light boats crossing oceans as a justification for taking a coastal cruiser offshore. It is not wise. It doesn't make them bad boats. I think those who advocate taking a Hunter or Catalina across an ocean are doing their fellow sailors a disservice. And yes, I know it has been done and done a lot. Still doesn't make it wise.
Now fast is a subjective term isn't it?????

I do agree for the most part. They don't perform badly at all. It is hard to describe an entire brand however as either fast or slow.

Either way I was being a little tongue in cheek, Bendyslow is just a term we use alot around here when racing to annoy the Bendyslow skippers

As for anecdotal examples, I don't know what other kind of examples there are. If you add up enough anecdotal examples you get statistics. Now I don't personally advocate taking a modern production coastal cruiser across an ocean. I wouldn't do it myself, I sail a early 80's cruiser based on a roberts design and built like tank.

However I don't think we can sit on the internet and say a modern production cruiser can't cross an ocean when statistics say that about half of the boats out there crossing oceans are modern production 'coastal' cruisers.

'Life is either a daring adventure or nothing' - Helen Keller



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by chall03; 07-01-2012 at 09:58 PM.
chall03 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #115 of 126 Old 07-01-2012
Senior Member
 
CBinRI's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 919
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chall03 View Post
Now fast is a subjective term isn't it?????

I do agree for the most part. They don't perform badly at all. It is hard to describe an entire brand however as either fast or slow.

Either way I was being a little tongue in cheek, Bendyslow is just a term we use alot around here when racing to annoy the Bendyslow skippers

As for anecdotal examples, I don't know what other kind of examples there are. If you add up enough anecdotal examples you get statistics. Now I don't personally advocate taking a modern production coastal cruiser across an ocean. I wouldn't do it myself, I sail a early 80's cruiser based on a roberts design and built like tank.

However I don't think we can sit on the internet and say a modern production cruiser can't cross an ocean when statistics say that about half of the boats out there crossing oceans are modern production 'coastal' cruisers.
I would never say they "can't" cross an ocean. In fact, I said that they do it all the time. If it were me, I would increase my odds by taking a heavier-built boat. That's all.
CBinRI is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #116 of 126 Old 07-01-2012
Picnic Sailor
 
chall03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,801
Thanks: 24
Thanked 28 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

Your not saying it, but this thread and others like it seem to always end with an oversimplified, polarizing conclusion that basically modern production boats can't sail offshore.

As I have said a couple of pages back the problems start here with definitions and assumptions. What is Bluewater?? You cannot simply lump all sailing out of sight of land into the one basket and label it 'Bluewater'. There is trade wind sailing and high latitude sailing. There is sailing as part of an organised Rally and there is sailing remote routes on your own. The extremes of 'Bluewater' are extreme.

I personally would take a properly prepared 40+ Beneteau with good crew in the ARC. I would take the same 40+ Beneteau across the Pacific milk-run in season. I would not take it however around a cape.

Now if we are talking a circumnavigation, with associated heavy wear and tear I would be in a 50ft Hallberg Rassy.

The OPs account IMHO is about having a properly prepared boat more than the type of boat. All boats leak, especially old ones regardless of whether it is a Catalina or Swan. Steering not properly checked and maintained likewise is vulnerable on any boat....

'Life is either a daring adventure or nothing' - Helen Keller



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by chall03; 07-01-2012 at 11:43 PM.
chall03 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #117 of 126 Old 07-01-2012
Senior Moment Member
 
SloopJonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 11,610
Thanks: 60
Thanked 72 Times in 69 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBinRI View Post
Agreed about the 80s era Beneteau Firsts. The 42 is a very solid, fast and well-built boat.
AFAIAC it's the best looking boat Bene ever built. The whole series of Firsts of that vintage are great looking boats but the 42 is the best - gorgeous & racy and judging by the conditions of the ones I've seen, well built too.
CBinRI likes this.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
SloopJonB is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #118 of 126 Old 07-02-2012
Over Hill Sailing Club
 
smurphny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Adirondacks NY
Posts: 3,543
Thanks: 88
Thanked 105 Times in 102 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

www.usna.edu/Users/naome/phmiller/offshore.ppt

A simple, interesting ppt file.
jackdale and RainDog like this.

Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
smurphny is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #119 of 126 Old 07-02-2012
Senior Member
 
jackdale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 9,041
Thanks: 27
Thanked 59 Times in 56 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
www.usna.edu/Users/naome/phmiller/offshore.ppt

A simple, interesting ppt file.
Thanks for that - saved.

__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203, 204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #120 of 126 Old 03-27-2013
Senior Member
 
Group9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,815
Thanks: 24
Thanked 72 Times in 70 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Yes, this is an old story, but a good read just the same. I like Stumble's summary.. not a lot of those issues can be laid at the builder's door.

The boat ultimately survived the ordeal and was returned to the owner, IIRC.
Funny how some of these boats seem to do better on their own, than with their owners onboard.

You know you really shouldn't be at sea when you're boat is in less danger with you off of it than on it.
Group9 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tell me your story CraigMiller1 General Discussion (sailing related) 10 10-15-2011 03:46 PM
Here is story for you.. Giulietta Gear & Maintenance 18 11-29-2006 05:55 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome