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  #111  
Old 07-01-2012
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
I think you answered your own question - many, if not most of the people who join the ARC do so precisely BECAUSE they are inexperienced at blue water sailing. Inexperience and a less than ideal boat for the purpose sort of go hand in hand.

Anyone who makes it across the Pacific, or even attempts it, is not likely to fall into that category.
I guess I did didn't I?? Aren't I clever

I don't know if I would go as far as you in saying most who do the ARC are inexperienced, but maybe it is more different kinds of perspectives and a different bluewater experience.

Not only have the guys coming into Bundaberg crossed the Pacific, most of them(The North Americans and Europeans on a circumnavigation) are also venturing onto the Indian Ocean and looking at rounding a pretty bad ass Cape. A very different kind of 'Bluewater' to doing the ARC. Most of them seem to be in custom builds/ heavily modified one offs or a expensive 'bluewater production boat' (Hallberg R/Swan/IslandPacket/Hylas/Ovni/Amel) I don't see many old faithfuls ( Valiant 40 et all), but then again Australia is an expensive place to visit, and budget conscious world cruisers probably sail right past.

The point still stands however that there are 'inexperienced' cruisers in modern production boats sailing across the Atlantic in large enough numbers to not be anecdotal, without really too many issues( Yes I know the ARC is not without incident).
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  #112  
Old 07-01-2012
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Uh-oh, now you've done it...

Not a single offering from Beneteau, Catalina, or Hunter makes his list... Oh, well - what does John Neal know about bluewater sailing, anyway? (grin)

As you say, "fairly comprehensive" is the operative word, there... FWIW, I'd take a Frers-designed Beneteau First Series from the 80's in a heartbeat to take me anywhere I'd care to sail...

And, while it's not my cup of tea at all, I'd have little hesitation delivering a Hunter HC-50, or a boat like Michael's 49, to a place like the Caribbean...

I thought the HC-50 was a pretty cool boat, you've gotta love a 50-footer that was offered with a tiller as an option... Probably one of the least popular models Hunter ever built, however - a case where "their market" spoke volumes...
Agreed about the 80s era Beneteau Firsts. The 42 is a very solid, fast and well-built boat.
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  #113  
Old 07-01-2012
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

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Originally Posted by chall03 View Post
Are you guys suggesting that maybe sailnet might be wrong?

We have a member here who just completed a circumnavigation on a Hunter.....

Another guy just posted in a old thread about doing the ARC rally in his Catalina.

And if you look through the list of entries for the ARC you will find every second boat is a Bendyslow
Bendyslow? They make some very fast boats.

I still don't get using anecdotal examples of light boats crossing oceans as a justification for taking a coastal cruiser offshore. It is not wise. It doesn't make them bad boats. I think those who advocate taking a Hunter or Catalina across an ocean are doing their fellow sailors a disservice. And yes, I know it has been done and done a lot. Still doesn't make it wise.
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  #114  
Old 07-01-2012
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

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Originally Posted by CBinRI View Post
Bendyslow? They make some very fast boats.

I still don't get using anecdotal examples of light boats crossing oceans as a justification for taking a coastal cruiser offshore. It is not wise. It doesn't make them bad boats. I think those who advocate taking a Hunter or Catalina across an ocean are doing their fellow sailors a disservice. And yes, I know it has been done and done a lot. Still doesn't make it wise.
Now fast is a subjective term isn't it?????

I do agree for the most part. They don't perform badly at all. It is hard to describe an entire brand however as either fast or slow.

Either way I was being a little tongue in cheek, Bendyslow is just a term we use alot around here when racing to annoy the Bendyslow skippers

As for anecdotal examples, I don't know what other kind of examples there are. If you add up enough anecdotal examples you get statistics. Now I don't personally advocate taking a modern production coastal cruiser across an ocean. I wouldn't do it myself, I sail a early 80's cruiser based on a roberts design and built like tank.

However I don't think we can sit on the internet and say a modern production cruiser can't cross an ocean when statistics say that about half of the boats out there crossing oceans are modern production 'coastal' cruisers.
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Last edited by chall03; 07-01-2012 at 10:58 PM.
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  #115  
Old 07-01-2012
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

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Originally Posted by chall03 View Post
Now fast is a subjective term isn't it?????

I do agree for the most part. They don't perform badly at all. It is hard to describe an entire brand however as either fast or slow.

Either way I was being a little tongue in cheek, Bendyslow is just a term we use alot around here when racing to annoy the Bendyslow skippers

As for anecdotal examples, I don't know what other kind of examples there are. If you add up enough anecdotal examples you get statistics. Now I don't personally advocate taking a modern production coastal cruiser across an ocean. I wouldn't do it myself, I sail a early 80's cruiser based on a roberts design and built like tank.

However I don't think we can sit on the internet and say a modern production cruiser can't cross an ocean when statistics say that about half of the boats out there crossing oceans are modern production 'coastal' cruisers.
I would never say they "can't" cross an ocean. In fact, I said that they do it all the time. If it were me, I would increase my odds by taking a heavier-built boat. That's all.
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  #116  
Old 07-02-2012
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

Your not saying it, but this thread and others like it seem to always end with an oversimplified, polarizing conclusion that basically modern production boats can't sail offshore.

As I have said a couple of pages back the problems start here with definitions and assumptions. What is Bluewater?? You cannot simply lump all sailing out of sight of land into the one basket and label it 'Bluewater'. There is trade wind sailing and high latitude sailing. There is sailing as part of an organised Rally and there is sailing remote routes on your own. The extremes of 'Bluewater' are extreme.

I personally would take a properly prepared 40+ Beneteau with good crew in the ARC. I would take the same 40+ Beneteau across the Pacific milk-run in season. I would not take it however around a cape.

Now if we are talking a circumnavigation, with associated heavy wear and tear I would be in a 50ft Hallberg Rassy.

The OPs account IMHO is about having a properly prepared boat more than the type of boat. All boats leak, especially old ones regardless of whether it is a Catalina or Swan. Steering not properly checked and maintained likewise is vulnerable on any boat....
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Last edited by chall03; 07-02-2012 at 12:43 AM.
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  #117  
Old 07-02-2012
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

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Originally Posted by CBinRI View Post
Agreed about the 80s era Beneteau Firsts. The 42 is a very solid, fast and well-built boat.
AFAIAC it's the best looking boat Bene ever built. The whole series of Firsts of that vintage are great looking boats but the 42 is the best - gorgeous & racy and judging by the conditions of the ones I've seen, well built too.
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  #118  
Old 07-02-2012
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

www.usna.edu/Users/naome/phmiller/offshore.ppt

A simple, interesting ppt file.
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  #119  
Old 07-02-2012
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

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Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
www.usna.edu/Users/naome/phmiller/offshore.ppt

A simple, interesting ppt file.
Thanks for that - saved.
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  #120  
Old 03-27-2013
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

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Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Yes, this is an old story, but a good read just the same. I like Stumble's summary.. not a lot of those issues can be laid at the builder's door.

The boat ultimately survived the ordeal and was returned to the owner, IIRC.
Funny how some of these boats seem to do better on their own, than with their owners onboard.

You know you really shouldn't be at sea when you're boat is in less danger with you off of it than on it.
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