Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions. - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 126 Old 06-11-2012
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

Just for fun I looked it up, and while I couldn't find data from when this boat was built I did find out that currently:

Nautica Swan uses all lewmar hatches for its boats.
Catalina also uses the exact same hatches.
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post #12 of 126 Old 06-11-2012
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

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Originally Posted by CaptTony View Post
They ought to have a sign in the cockpit of Hunters and Catalinas that say "no more than 25 miles offshore.
You should mention that to the fellow in another thread who sailed his Cat 27 from Massachusetts to the Azores. Alone. Without any real sailing experience by his own admission.

Mike

PS - This one......

I have a friend who owns a 1970's sailboat. It's a Cape Cod Shipbuilding Mercer 44'. The inboard diesel gave out last fall so he has had it dry in his yard awaiting a new engine. So anyways, on Memorial Day some drunk thought his yard was a road and hit the supports holding the boat up. It fell over and the mast got bent, a hole in the hull the size of a dinner plate as well as the sails getting trashed. Nothing else got damaged but his insurance company offered him $200,000. They let him keep it for $15,000. That's where I come in.

Does this seem like a headache? I have a 70's Catalina 27' and it's a dream. I am thinking of taking the summer off from work and getting sailing lessons, getting her fixed, and sailing her to Europe. I sailed the Cat to the Azores last summer single handed. Not sure if that's possible on this. My friend always had it perfectly maintained by the company that built it so it is just a matter of fixing it.

Any thoughts?

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post #13 of 126 Old 06-11-2012
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

This stuff is all written as if a boat were manufactured like a car. They aren't. The base boat is built, then 'commissioned' by the broker using mostly local resources. I don't know a single owner of a boat that has offshore experience who thinks any boat by any manufacturer is ready to go immediately after commissioning. Most take a measured approach and 'test' the boat over a period of time, distance, races, cruising, etc... that gradually extend the envelope toward the owner's goal whether it's a TransPac or a Ba Ha Ha and onward. Changes are made along the way as will suite the owner's goal. The best owners 'know what they don't know' and embrace the process of sorting a boat ( and crew ) out. Along the way there are inevitably problems that crop up. "Swan" or "Hinckley" on the builder's plate doesn't by you immunity, though it might buy some pretty fabulous customer service and a good basic build quality. If someone's looking for a product that will meet the demands of offshore sailing out of the box without knowledge (or at least extreme curiousity), prep, and work on your part, they really should be pursuing a different, less challenging, recreational outlet.
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

Sorry guys, wasn't really commenting on the boat itself, but the prep work and the items on the boat that could be beefed up to take the seas. This is for any boat! My comment about a heavy boat just has to do with my own experience and the desire not the get the crap beat outta me.

The sea is relentless so anything that can be beefed up should be. That story just gives a good line item list of things that can go wrong. Good for peeps asking those bluewater questions. Need more stories like this. In fact, would be good to have a list somewhere.

I read it somewhere here that there is no such thing as a bluewater boat. Could it be true? I spend 4 years working on off-shore construction barges and ships during my 20's. I was once on a converted tanker (converted to a construction ship) that got caught in a pretty bad storm. We battened down and rode it out. By rode, I really mean it as these things, tho HUGE, have no propulsion of their own. It was like a toy in a bathtub. I saw the sea take huge pieces of equipment that had been lashed down with thick, heavy rope, and in some cases steel cable, ripped right off the deck! We probably would not have sank with everything sealed off, but we did almost flip (a TANKER!). We had to fill the bilges to the point of almost sinking just to keep that from happening. Is that bluewater? I guess it depends on your definition. If by bluewater people mean it won't sink, then yeah, but if by bluewater it means the sea can't harm it, then there's no such thing, unless you're in a sub I guess LOL.

By the way, that storm scared the hell out of me. But, a couple of years later, I bought a sailboat anyway.

Once you get salt in your veins....

And I do agree with alot of what I've read on this forum. It's what the sailors can sail. If a great seaman is on a crappy boat, and EVERYTHING goes wrong but the boat doesn't sink, you might see him later on with a paddle just pushing the thing into port like a raft.
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

The Wiki thinks this goes back to at least the 14th century:

For Want of a Nail

For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the message was lost.
For want of a message the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

Same same on offshore voyaging. A simple gasket, and there goes the fresh water. A sheet fouling a hatch. The little things can add up and get you.
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post #16 of 126 Old 06-11-2012
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

I think it is a combination of design, build quality, and crew competence. Any boat with a wide companionway that opens close to the cockpit sole and cabinetry/bulkheads that are attached with screws doesn't meet the build quality required. Catalina, Hunter and others are good boats for their intended purpose but offshore use, at least in the under 35' boats, isn't part of their intended use. All of these boats can be modified for offshore use - but some require much more modification than others.
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

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... During my professional delivery days I learned neither Catalinas or Hunters are blue water boats. That was well before the internet. Today you can get on line and come to the same conclusion. Why these people in the Catalina attempted to go to Hawaii without doing some research is a topic onto itself.

They ought to have a sign in the cockpit of Hunters and Catalinas that say "no more than 25 miles offshore."

Let the flaming begin.
Not gonna flame...no need. Your opinion is based on experience well over 17 years ago. (based on internet comment) The new model Catalina Ocean Series boats are built and designed well...and with properly experienced and prepared crew are fully capable blue water boats. Note the key words here are "properly experienced and prepared crew"....Sure, some boats are better than others, but to say the new Catalina Ocean Series is not "capable" or should be restricted to 25 miles...is just not accurate.


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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

They may be well built but the 385 layout shown below only has one possible seaberth and that is the dinette seat to port. They may be well built and are called "offshore" but have layouts that are better at the dock.
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post #19 of 126 Old 06-11-2012
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

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They may be well built but the 385 layout shown below only has one possible seaberth and that is the dinette seat to port. They may be well built and are called "offshore" but have layouts that are better at the dock.
Agreed. There is one possible seaberth, I'll bet there is no lee cloth.

The athwartships aft cabin is useless with any heel. Although you might able to wedge yourself in somehow.

The galley looks good for offshore.

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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

Before you “dis” a boat you ought to have at least seen it in person. The little table Stb drops down to form a settee which is designed to turn into a “sea berth” (owner responsible for lee cloth). I have laid down on it and can personally testify that it is more than adequate for that purpose. I really like the cockpit layout on this boat and Catalina will sell it with a standard Selden mast and slab reefing so it meets one of my requirements for an ocean sailor. After sailing this boat I have only two minor critiques. One, she is relatively heavy and somewhat slow in light airs. But was a delight to sail in the twenty to thirty knot breezes in San Francisco Bay. My personal preference is to have the head aft as to not wake sleeping crew or track water throughout the cabin, but with all the other features on this boat I would make an allowance for it. This boat really spoke to me. Unfortunately, Mrs. B is holding out for a 40-42 footer. Disclosure: I am an experienced ocean racer (2nd place in the Pacific Cup to Hawaii) and a cruiser.


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