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  #51  
Old 06-13-2012
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

"Albergs can be drastically improved, by taking the rudder off the keel , and putting a vertical rudder at the aft end of the waterline, on a good strong skeg, at the back of the boat, where it belongs. A friend who circumnavigated on an Alberg 37,said he sure wished he had done that, before his circumnavigation."

This is interesting info. I know nothing (yet) about rudders. I'm also interested in the book that was mentioned. I'll have to hit Amazon. My cloud Kindle reader is already full of sailing books.... what's one more?
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  #52  
Old 06-13-2012
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Some boats and designs simply ARE far more suitable than others or most for such sailing, it's completely beyond me why some try so hard to deny this...
Agreed. What's important to truly understand is that there are no magic thresholds that say "this boat is okay and that one is not." It's all an amalgamation of lots of factors and a wide spectrum of competence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt13 View Post
It's funny I see Catalina's and hunters in the bahamas, and even down in the carribean from the USA????? Hmmm I guess they e-mailed them down there?
There is a lot of island hopping, lots and lots of waiting for very calm weather followed by motoring, and the odd bit of hiring "pros from Dover" to get boats through.

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No freakin' way would a Hunter or Hanse of equivalent size would have been as comfortable, or have inspired as much confidence along the 300+ miles of such an unforgiving lee shore in those conditions, and anyone who truly believes otherwise is dreaming, IMHO... (grin)
I agree with your general conclusion. Note that gross characterizations like full keel, full keel with cutaway forefoot, and fin keels are now more useful than brand names. How many folks have really looked at the underbody of a Swan, HR, or Moody lately?
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  #53  
Old 06-13-2012
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

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Originally Posted by LandLocked66c View Post
I love these threads... Carry on
Me too....they're everywhere....

On the Jeep forum....it's "if you don't have a Rubicon it's a mall crawler"

On Scuba Forum....it's "if you depend on computers you'll die".....

On an RV forum.....it's "unless you tow with an F350 you'll kill people".....

Always the same thing...people have an "opinion" and deploy it as an indisputable fact. Even the simple mention of their point of view being an "opinion" gets a reaction with a flood of facts, links, reports......it's as if they're so desperate to validate their way of thinking....they absolutely MUST be right and any dissension MUST be wrong. They perceive themselves as an expert on the subject, and their word on it is the final word.

I actually stopped posting on Scuba Forum because of it. As a PADI Professional (IDC Staff Instructor) I just couldn't stomach the ancient tripe and advice misguiding (and confusing) new divers in recreational diving.

BTW - I'm not in any way inferring the advice/opinions here are "ancient" and/or "tripe"....
jgeissinger and alanr77 like this.
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Old 06-13-2012
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

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Originally Posted by JoeDiver View Post
I'm not in any way inferring the advice/opinions here are "ancient" and/or "tripe"....
Anything stating the "necessity" of a full keel offshore is.
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

These threads all boil down to the same argument. Can my Hunter, Catalina, Beneteau etc make it safely offshore. How many times do we have to beat this horse to death. The best answer is it depends. It depends on maintenance and equipment. It depends on the weather. It depends on what "offshore" is. I'm no expert but I will repeat my experience. Transit form St. Thomas to Norfolk in April. Offshore all the way in the north Atlantic (1200 miles). Two boats, an aluminum purpose built pilothouse with deep keel and an Ericson 46. 5 days out we encountered a freak tropical depression. Aluminum boat soldiers on with no damage save an autopilot bracket, Ericson breaks all its bulkheads, cabin sole comes adrift and 2 grew hurt. Both boats were well equipped. Would you take an Ericson 46 from California to Hawaii. Sure. North Atlantic in the spring. Not a good idea. Would a well prepared Catalina or Hunter have made it without significant damage to the boat or crew? Debatable, but I for one wouldn't want to try. It is no time to find out that your hull flexes an alarming amount in 25 foot confused and steep seas while it is not a problem in 25 foot long duration waves. Just remember, all the capsize ratios, comfort ratios and equipment don't mean a thing when it hits the fan. You need a strongly built boat with proper equipment, capable crew, and good boat speed. The longer you are in bad weather the better the chance something bad will happen.
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

Frankly I think the problem here is that anecdotal evidence of seaworthiness is pretty much all there is. To my knowledge there is no boat builder that does anything close to destruction testing of boats, simply because the costs are too high, and the number of boats sold is too low. Sure I know of Hunters that have had the deck/hull joint fail, but I also know of a Swan that lost its keel. Which is more likely, well that is a statistical question that we just don't have the data to support either way. So we must base our decision making on anecdotes, a general 'feel' about quality, and builders reputations. And I don't think there is anything wrong with that, it is necessary.

At the same time, it is important to recognize that most boats, even from low quality builders do quite well offshore even in the worst of conditions. And that a well built boat can founder offshore just as easily. The primary determiner in my experience isn't the boat, but the crew. Proper preparation, diagnosis of the situation, taking steps to reduce loads on the boat, all can play a large part in the survival of ay boat in a storm. And rarely is it necessary to rely on nothing but the strength of the boat itself to get you through a storm.
alanr77 and misfits like this.
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

Just in from the “for what it’s worth department”: Three Beneteaus and one Catalina are part of the 49 boat fleet for this year’s Pacific Cup. No Hunters are registered. I know of at least one Catalina (a C320!) entered in the Single Handed Transpac which is starting at the end of this month.
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

I would not take a boat that lightly built across an ocean. Catalinas are great boats for what they are: coastal cruisers built to a reasonable price point. They are not for crossing oceans. Because there are so many of them it seems like someone is always arguing that they are bluewater vessels, but that is simply not the case. And I am sure someone will tell me that many have circumnavigated, etc.. but that does not mean that they are suitable for the purpose.
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

An Australian circumnavigated in a 12 foot boat. I have seen a British lady do it in a trailer sailor. It has been done in a bathtub and a barrel.
You Americans have lost your sense of adventure. Sailing a Catalina across the Pacific would be a piece of cake but you have to have a sense of adventure and give up your creature comforts. Apparently you yanks have lost the plot.
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Re: Is she bluewater? Interesting story to help with these questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
At the same time, it is important to recognize that most boats, even from low quality builders do quite well offshore even in the worst of conditions. And that a well built boat can founder offshore just as easily. The primary determiner in my experience isn't the boat, but the crew. Proper preparation, diagnosis of the situation, taking steps to reduce loads on the boat, all can play a large part in the survival of ay boat in a storm. And rarely is it necessary to rely on nothing but the strength of the boat itself to get you through a storm.
Very well said!
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