SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

Help- New owner of 40ft old sailboat, can't get insurance

13K views 44 replies 31 participants last post by  xymotic 
#1 ·
Need help. New owner of a 1974 41ft blue water sailboat. This is the first boat I, myself, have owned. Right now, no insurance company will even give me liability insurance so I can dock at the local marina. I have tried:
SkiboatUS
State Farm
United Marine
Progressive
Global Marine

Their excuse is the same, too big of a boat for a new owner and it is near the ocean.

Any ideas?

To make matters worse, this boat is more of a project boat than normal. I bought the boat after it was washed ashore from a storm at a discounted price, got it back into water, and have been doing the necessary repairs. Very long story. While the boat is in great shape all things considered, the likelihood of getting a good survey is low at the moment as well. Currently I have to anchor it out due to insurance woes. The motor runs well, and the boat is worthy of a diesel powered journey, but the rigging and sails need lots of work.
 
#3 ·
Just currious but whats the magic number in length or have they given you one or have you asked? Or does anyone else know? And what do they consider inexperienced?

I ask because me and my wife are considering something in the 36ft range own a catalina 22 for a couple of years now and dont plan on buying for another couple years. Havent gotten to the point of checking on insurance yet on a new boat so this story makes me a bit nervious.
 
#5 ·
It is more than 30 years old, so many insurers won't take it on as a new policy.
It is more than ~30' long, so many insurers who deal primarily in cars and homes won't take it on.
You're a new owner with limited credentials and no past ownership of a similar vessel, so again many insurers won't take it on.
And the boat may not pass a survey--so MOST insurers won't take it on in any case.

It may not be feasible but in some states you can post a bond in lieu of liability insurance on a motor vehicle, you might ask your state insurance department. Meanwhile, you need to make it a priority that the boat can and will pass a survey 100% and as soon as possible.

If there is a local USCG Aux or Power Squadron, you might ask them about membership and insurance, members often get a discount. Getting credentials (ASA tests, etc.) may help you. Or try IMIS, IMIS Home Page ~ International Marine Insurance Services they're professionals and can probably put you with some legitimate carrier, or tell you what has to be done to qualify for one.
 
#11 ·
What are YOUR sailing credentials? USPS? CG Aux? ASA? US Sailing?

I suspect that may have something to do with the trouble in your getting insured as well.
 
#12 · (Edited)
To make matters worse, this boat is more of a project boat than normal. I bought the boat after it was washed ashore from a storm at a discounted price, got it back into water, and have been doing the necessary repairs. Very long story. While the boat is in great shape all things considered, the likelihood of getting a good survey is low at the moment as well. Currently I have to anchor it out due to insurance woes. The motor runs well, and the boat is worthy of a diesel powered journey, but the rigging and sails need lots of work.


The survey is THE issue and my 1970 boat is insured with Boat-US NO problem with them or anybody else and had the PO not been willing to keep the boat and existing insurance in his name until it was on jack-stands at home the deal would NOT have happened


Been there done that would nobody would touch it until AFTER it would survey NOT even port insurance while it was in my driveway



WHY IN GODS NAME would anybody insure a storm salvaged boat that will NOT even remotely pass a survey
 
#13 ·
.......

WHY IN GODS NAME would anybody insure a storm salvaged boat that will NOT even remotely pass a survey


He is looking for liability, not insurance to cover HIS boat.

I don't get it either.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Flybyknight
#16 ·
Try Boat US too.

If they say no you may have to go with out insurance on a mooring or put the boat up in someone's yard (not a boatyard). Boatyards and marinas wont let you in without insurance. Staying on anchor is not a safe alternative, some night you'll come home find your home nowhere in sight.

Then you can work on a plan to get insurance:
1. Have the boat surveyed. The surveyor will have some strong recommendations as to safey items needing to be addressed. You need to fix those items.
2. It may take a few months to fix the safety issues. At the end of that period visit one of the local ASA schools and challenge the 101 and 103 exams. If you don't pass the challenges, take the classes.

Then you can go back to the insurance companies with the survey and list of resolved issues, some sailing certificates, a few months of experience running the boat, and that should be enough. The company may require you have the surveyor back to certify the suitability of your resolutions.
 
#17 ·
My survey guy was very nice and gave me a free list and said forget about getting it insured

When he came back 20 months later he had no problem putting his name on the dotted line

General Summary/Risk Assessment/Values: This boat was found to be well constructed originally, and it has not suffered any major damage or repairs. The basic structure of the boat – the hull, deck, and interior, is sound. The foredeck has been largely rebuilt to correct a delamination condition. The work has been well done. The standing rigging is all new., and the mast and sails are in good condition. The engine, fuel and exhaust systems have all been rebuilt or replaced. The hull has been repainted. There are still some cosmetic upgrades to be made to the interior. In general, the boat has benefited from a knowledgeable and conscientious owner.

If the recommendation is followed I would consider it to be an acceptable risk.

I would place its current market value, as surveyed, based on book values as well as selling prices of similar boats, at about XXXXX
 
#19 ·
Create a LLC, put the boat under the LLC and put it on a mooring or anchor. Its worth nothing, and the LLC will protect you from the (remote) chance that your boat causes someone else damages beyond the value of the boat.

Some may find this distasteful...but the fact that you cant get insurance and now marinas require it is a bit crazy in todays litigious world.
 
#20 ·
Create a LLC, put the boat under the LLC and put it on a mooring or anchor. Its worth nothing, and the LLC will protect you from the (remote) chance that your boat causes someone else damages beyond the value of the boat.

Some may find this distasteful...but the fact that you cant get insurance and now marinas require it is a bit crazy in todays litigious world.
Agreed, at least it protects your other assets. Call it self-insurance if you want.
 
#21 ·
I would talk to a marine insurance broker even if he can't help he will be able to tell you why or what you will need to be insured. the real issue with a not so good survey and liability is not so much what you might hurt but who you might hurt. insuring a boat that does not survey well is not one that they want to insure because that is one way new owner get into trouble .
 
#22 ·
try BoatUS.com for insurance.
contact the american saing association and find a sailing school near you and get a couple of ASA certifications. start with basic keelboat 101 which most schools also include a boating safety certificate. then do basic coastal cruising 103 and coastal navigation 105. this will get you over the hump. then get plenty of pratice on the water.
smooth sailing.
 
#23 ·
UPDATE

Owner of thread here:

So I called BoatUS on the recommendations of SailNet community. At this time they will not touch it. Bryan, one of the underwriters, was very helpful though, and I have learned much to share. He said if I had 12 months of ownership of this boat, and a few ASA classes under my belt, then getting insurance through BoatUS shouldn't be a problem. New boat Owner/limited experience (2 years of using other peoples boats...)/Big boat is the biggest headache.

It doesn't help that this boat was once on land, though a decent survey may help that. I expect the hull and engine to survey well, but a few soft spots on the deck and some old rigging/sails will cause issues. Not terrible for a 38 year old boat, but I have issues I want to address before survey.

Now, according to the underwriter, over the past year or so the entire marine insurance industry has tightened up considerably. If this had been 2 years ago, insurance would not have been a problem. Case in point I have also learned from my friend at the marina that he got cheap liability insurance through State Farm 2 years ago, with zero experience on a 30ft sailboat. Calling State Farm, they had changed their policies and/or underwriter one year ago and no longer insure boats in the salt- he is grandfathered in, for now. Essentially, if you have a good insurance policy DON'T LET IT LAPSE!

At this point, a lot of the marinas are not even aware of the difficulties for new boat owners to acquire insurance. Asking around it was one of those "Oh, just get $300,000 liability insurance to protect our docks and the other boats and it won't be a problem..."

Bryan, the BoatUS underwriter, has given me three smaller insurance companies that may be able to help. Unfortunately they are only open M-F. Current plan is to get the boat fully seaworthy, take a few ASA classes, and try these other companies- not necessarily in that order.

Will post the outcome.
 
#24 ·
UPDATE

Owner of thread here:

So I called BoatUS on the recommendations of SailNet community. At this time they will not touch it. Bryan, one of the underwriters, was very helpful though, and I have learned much to share. He said if I had 12 months of ownership of this boat, and a few ASA classes under my belt, then getting insurance through BoatUS shouldn't be a problem. New boat Owner/limited experience (2 years of using other peoples boats...)/Big boat is the biggest headache.

It doesn't help that this boat was once on land, though a decent survey may help that. I expect the hull and engine to survey well, but a few soft spots on the deck and some old rigging/sails will cause issues. Not terrible for a 38 year old boat, but I have issues I want to address before survey.

Now, according to the underwriter, over the past year or so the entire marine insurance industry has tightened up considerably. If this had been 2 years ago, insurance would not have been a problem. Case in point I have also learned from my friend at the marina that he got cheap liability insurance through State Farm 2 years ago, with zero experience on a 30ft sailboat. Calling State Farm, they had changed their policies and/or underwriter one year ago and no longer insure boats in the salt- he is grandfathered in, for now. Essentially, if you have a good insurance policy DON'T LET IT LAPSE!

At this point, a lot of the marinas are not even aware of the difficulties for new boat owners to acquire insurance. Asking around it was one of those "Oh, just get $300,000 liability insurance to protect our docks and the other boats and it won't be a problem..."

Bryan, the BoatUS underwriter, has given me three smaller insurance companies that may be able to help. Unfortunately they are only open M-F. Current plan is to get the boat fully seaworthy, take a few ASA classes, and try these other companies- not necessarily in that order.

Will post the outcome.
Thanks for the update, as this may directly affect me.

With what you describe, it would appear that 30 year and older boats may well have an even further devaluation, unless marina's change their practices, and I'll bet dollars to donuts that the marina's insurance will require them to get copies of boat owner's insurance policies.

Reality bites in this very risk averse universe we are in now.
 
#25 ·
I sail on my 42 year old Cal 29 and a 42 Year old C&C 35 and its the survey which both have insurance without issue and pretty darn high Actual Cash Values

EVEN on a much NEWER boat they want one every 10 years and even my orginal owner friend of a PERFECT Tartan 372 had to have and OUT of water survey this season to KEEP his insurance
 
#26 ·
OP, pm me and I'll send you my broker's contact info. I was in the same boat, almost (sorry, couldn't resist): trying to find coverage for a home-built wood boat that had been under the PO's homeowner's policy. I found out like you did that companies don't want to cover older boats without a survey. I was prepping to spring for a survey on a 25'er I was getting for about what the survey would've cost me. In the end I got an agreed-value policy and liability based on my experience crewing (no certs) and detailed pics that showed she was shipshape.

But either way I could believe a good broker could get you liability coverage with a hull/engine survey.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Liability for inshore sailing shouldn't be problem for any boat. I had a number of companies offering to write a policy. The problem is in going>75-125 miles offshore. It seems that companies are reluctant to insure boats that venture very far from American waters, even when sailing where there are essentially no other boats to run into. I guess the uncertainty of foreign regulations has something to do with it but it would seem, in reality, that the farther one gets away from America the Land of Litigation, the less actual liability.
 
#29 ·
Owner of thread here, with final update.

I am not going to get insurance on my boat, for now at least.

After spending time working on it to make it pretty and seaworthy, I have found a private dock that I can use. I am forced to take the risk this year till I can accumulate the year(s) of ownership necessary to get insurance. To mitigate risk I had it pulled out of the water and placed on hard stands to get through hurricane season and to conduct repairs.

I found a friend with an old Chris Craft wooden boat that was forced into a similar situation, just because it was old and wooden- even though it was meticulously maintained.
 
#30 ·
my guess is the PO's insurance already paid out the loss and it's listed as sunk. I've no idea what you should do really. Denise030
Probably true. Did you research insurance for her before you got her? If not why not?
Is the only reason you are getting insurance is because the yards are requiring it? Or do you feel you should have liability insurance no matter what? Isnt what the insurance companies are saying true? Over 30 years, you have limited experience?

Do you feel those are unfair reqirements?

Isnt the insurance also for an accident where you have a polution spill or present an environemental hazzard also?
 
#31 · (Edited)
click here on the wooden boat fourms--> Where to get old wood boat insurance?

"Default Re: Where to get old wood boat insurance?

At the Wooden Boat Show in Mystic, I stopped at the Grundy booth. They do not require a survey - but do ask for a narrative of what's been done to the boat. Grundy Insurance

Their prices absolutely blew Heritage & Hagerty out of the water - 1/4 Heritage's price, ~45% of Hagerty's. They, like Hagerty, got their start with classic cars & then the owner got into old boats.

I have no connection with them, but unless someone comes up with a big reason why I shouldn't go with them, I am going to. Saving 2-3,000 is just too big a difference to ignore.

All comments welcome!"

-----------
Hope this helps
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top