Sailing yacht design

[ArmaniRG]

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts so far. Just these few posts gives one much to ponder. What are the opinions about the placement, the location, of berths in a ship? For example, I have heard from some people that the bunks located at the bow are impossible to sleep on during rough weather... What does everyone think? Where in the ship should they be placed and why?

[johnnyquest37]

I'd suggest reading some books. Steve Dashew, Beth Leonard, Larry and Lin Pardey have all written excellent books about what works and what doesn't work (for them) in terms of long-term cruising. John Rousmaniere's book Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics of Offshore Yachts is another good source.

[Faster]

Originally Posted by ArmaniRG

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts so far. Just these few posts gives one much to ponder. What are the opinions about the placement, the location, of berths in a ship? For example, I have heard from some people that the bunks located at the bow are impossible to sleep on during rough weather... What does everyone think? Where in the ship should they be placed and why?

Good sea berths should lie fore-and-aft and should be arranged so you can't fall out. The common athwartship aft doubles you see nowadays don't quailify, though they are fine for sheltered anchored-overnight cruising.

They should also be more midships for reduced motion and comfort. The old 'pilot berths' seen on some 70s and 80s layouts were actually pretty good if they were big enough. One of our former boats had 5 pipe berths that could be adjusted for heel angle.. they were actually pretty nice sea berths, but certainly weren't very 'cruisy' looking.

"Double" berths can have lee cloths added down the middle to make them more usable as sea berths, but they should run fore and aft as mentioned above.

[Jeff_H]

Originally Posted by ArmaniRG

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts so far. Just these few posts gives one much to ponder. What are the opinions about the placement, the location, of berths in a ship? For example, I have heard from some people that the bunks located at the bow are impossible to sleep on during rough weather... What does everyone think? Where in the ship should they be placed and why?

I second the suggestion to do a bunch of reading, and add to that do a bunch of sailing on different types of boats.

In terms of berths. In port forward cabins work well, as do aft cabins in midship-cockpit boats. Offshore there needs to be good seaberths and they should be located so that the person's head is near the center of rotation and centered away from the noise of the bow and stern in a seaway. In my sketch design, I show a pilot berth, and a transom berth (which could work with lee cloths) which places the sleeper's head within a foot or so of the center of buoyancy and the pitching center of rotation (not always the same).

[ArmaniRG]

Excellent. Checked out the book. Will definitely get a copy. Appreciate the advice.

[Oregonian]

My ideal boat would be very close to the design of the Westsail 32. This is, of course, an Archer, Atkin, Crealock, derivative. Having sailed over 150 boats over 160,000 miles I have found nothing better for what I want to do. By far, most of my experience has been on fin keeled boats. Some cruisers, some racer/cruisers, some racers. As I prefer a smallish boat I have found that when doing long distance voyaging, carrying all that is needed, that none of the modern boats will perform as well as the Westsails in the size that I want.
Admittedly some boats do some things better but none are as well rounded in performance as the Westsail. I am not interested in going larger.
With all that said, My ideal boat would be built using newer materials and more modern equipment than Westsail used 30-40 years ago. Improvements in rigging materials and coring materials are examples. The rudder would be attached with a thought toward hydrodynamics instead of just ease of construction. And a modern, retracting, bowsprit would be handy.
For living aboard,( I did for 26 years), the interior was perfect for a couple. For voyaging, I found the center table option to be ideal, as great sea berths were perfectly located.
Using the newer building techniques and materials, I would reduce the unladened weight by about 1200 pounds but keep the designed ladened weight at 19,500 pounds. I would not add coamings to the cockpit area as many people have requested. I prefer the complete ease and freedom of movement from this area.
For the high latitudes I admit it would be nice to have a 39 footer but at all other times I like the shorter boat.
Why a full keel heavy boat? Because both attributes can produce a level of performance, safety and COMFORT that can not be attained in lighter weight boats when doing the kind of sailing that I am usually doing. And what am I usually doing with my boat? Whatever I want to do.

[SchockT]

Jeff H, I am right with you on alot of your design ideas! Nicely done!

You might be interested in some of Bieker's work. He designed a boat in our club called Strum that I think might just appeal to you.

Riptide 50 Strum






Paul Bieker really did find a nice balance for performance cruising. With it's water ballast system, a lifting keel that brings the 12' keel up to 7' and a powerful sailplan it is blazing fast, and yet it has all the creature comforts you could need! Perhaps she doesn't have a ton of fancy woodwork, but I love how clean and bright she is and as a result she is a very impressive 13,540lb in cruising trim.

Ahhh! If money was no object....

You can read more HERE if you are interested.

[puddinlegs]

Second on the Bieker boats. So does C.Buchan's (corrected) 'Madrona' that I linked via the Van Isle 360. Amazingly it looks pretty much like Jeff's notes.

Pilot and quarter berths are the best. V-berths are for on the hook or at the dock. Oh, and sleep with your feet forward when you're underway!

[blt2ski]

I thought madrona was one of C Buchans common name for his boats, much like bill used Glory and some other name in the past. Did McKee buy this boat from Carl?

Thought McKee had Strum or some similar boat to it, as he did have a Beiker 50 that was built down under. Along with a Riptide 35 before that, that seem to break plenty of course records for being that size.

Something inline with what Jeff noodled out would work as would Madrona. I'd probably go fixed keel over the daggerboard style, as there is very few places draft is an issue here in puget sound.

Marty

[puddinlegs]

Doah!!!! yes, thanks Marty. You're correct. JM has Darkstar, also a Bieker boat.