Rudder damage - urgent advice needed - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree4Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 06-28-2012
GrahamO's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portsmouth NH
Posts: 180
Thanks: 5
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 3
GrahamO is on a distinguished road
Exclamation Rudder damage - urgent advice needed

This is a real pain.... We are about to purchase a really nice Bristol 38.8 and the previous owner hit bottom with her coming down from the yard where she was painted. Kudos to him that he immediately told us about it and had the boat hauled. It looks like she came down on a wave and impacted vertically rather than hitting it forward. There are a couple of scrapes on the keel that don't look serious but the worst damage is to the rudder.
The rudder alignment is fine and you can easily move the rudder from stop to stop by hand so there does not appear to be major structural damage (tough boat) but the bottom edge is crushed. The integrity of the core is certainly compromised.
We now have a few largely unpleasant choices:
1. Walk away - don't want to do that. She is otherwise a lovely boat with lots of new stuff.
2. Delay the purchase until the rudder is dried out and repaired - losing a lot more of the season.
3. Take the boat as-is with a credit to repair it next spring after the winter haul- out.

The last one is tempting because we get sailing sooner, the rudder will dry out better during the winter haul-out and the total repair cost will be lower (the seller is a nice guy). However this option has some hair on it:
1. Will keeping it in the water do more damage?
2. Is there a risk of water in the rudder freezing during the haul-out, doing more damage?
3. How do we establish the likely cost of repair as the yard where that would be done is a long way from where the boat is?

I guess the bottom line is I really don't know what the implications of water in the rudder core are. The selling broker is playing it down but he is the selling broker.... We are getting a surveyor to look at it today but I always appreciate your advice if anyone is up and about in time.

Thanks a lot
__________________
Graham and Janaki
Bristol 38.8
Leela
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 06-28-2012
jimjazzdad's Avatar
Bluenoser
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: St. Margaret's Bay
Posts: 170
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 6
jimjazzdad is on a distinguished road
Re: Rudder damage - urgent advice needed

Water incursion into a cored rudder is never something to ignore. Modern rudders rely on a skeleton of stainess steel, covered with polyurethane foam, wrapped in fiberglass. Once the fiberglss skin is breached, water can migrate to the stainless steel structure. Stainless is notorious for rusting when it is in contact with saltwater that is stagnent and not subject to aeration - e.g. crevice corrosion. If the stainless skeleton of the rudder is compromised...well it might fail just when you need it most. If you really want this boat, bite the bullet and have the rudder repaired professionally.

Last edited by jimjazzdad; 06-28-2012 at 01:27 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 06-28-2012
dnf777's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 319
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
dnf777 is on a distinguished road
Re: Rudder damage - urgent advice needed

what does a replacement rudder cost for that boat? Might be the best repair and quickest way back into the water. And given the potential for more serious damage, would not even consider purchasing without a professional survey at this point.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 06-28-2012
SimonV's Avatar
Wish I never found SN!
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 1,995
Thanks: 3
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 9
SimonV will become famous soon enough
Re: Rudder damage - urgent advice needed

Rudders are an easy fix, most older rudders have some form of water ingress I would say 4 days out of the water, day one lift and cut back the damage to sound material feather glass for new lay up.( about 3 hrs.) day 2 If there is no moisture glue and shape new foam or balsa(my choice) lay up the glass 3 - 4 layers end of day spread on filler. (4 hrs) day 3 fair rudder, put on barrier coat at end of day. (2-3hrs) Day 4 2 coats anti foul and splash 2hrs. Total 10 - 11 hrs of hands on labor. [I] would use the down time waiting for the epoxy to cure putting on some fresh anti foul.
__________________
Simon
Ericson 39B.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I love my boat
S/V GOODONYA
Brisbane
present location Heading to the Whitesundays

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

DELIVERY SKIPPER
Drinking Rum before 10am makes you a Pirate NOT an alcohlic
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 06-28-2012
Capt.aaron's Avatar
KNOT KNOWN
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Guanaja, Bay Islands, Honduras
Posts: 1,320
Thanks: 1
Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Capt.aaron is on a distinguished road
Re: Rudder damage - urgent advice needed

EZ FIX. You will be happier knowing you fixed it. I would knock at least thousand off the price of the boat, nice guy or not he F'd up, needs to pay for it. Pay your self 40 dollars an hour to fix it as well.
chrisncate likes this.
__________________
" Some are boat wise and some are other wise"
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 06-28-2012
JimsCAL's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Glen Cove, NY
Posts: 2,342
Thanks: 0
Thanked 27 Times in 26 Posts
Rep Power: 8
JimsCAL is on a distinguished road
Re: Rudder damage - urgent advice needed

Forget option 3. Will only result in more damage. As long as the rudder was sound before, a repair is not a big deal.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 06-28-2012
GrahamO's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portsmouth NH
Posts: 180
Thanks: 5
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 3
GrahamO is on a distinguished road
Rudder damage - urgent advice needed

Thanks guys, the surveyor agrees. It's back on the stands for repair and I'm gritting my teeth... Life is long - lots of time to sail.
__________________
Graham and Janaki
Bristol 38.8
Leela
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 11-01-2012
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Clinton, PE
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
grant64 is on a distinguished road
Re: Rudder damage - urgent advice needed

So. I have a 1986 Tanzer 27 hauled out two weeks ago. Water is still running out along the seam of the rudder. It sounds like I need to open it up to check core???? How do I look inside for structural integrity and if open how do I go about repairing it? I was going to fibreglass the seams and stop water entering but now I realize the damage inside might cause it to fail.

I read a post here about one person who cut it open with a circular saw.

Any thoughts?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 11-02-2012
smurphny's Avatar
Over Hill Sailing Club
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Adirondacks NY
Posts: 2,627
Thanks: 47
Thanked 52 Times in 51 Posts
Rep Power: 6
smurphny is on a distinguished road
Re: Rudder damage - urgent advice needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonV View Post
Rudders are an easy fix, most older rudders have some form of water ingress I would say 4 days out of the water, day one lift and cut back the damage to sound material feather glass for new lay up.( about 3 hrs.) day 2 If there is no moisture glue and shape new foam or balsa(my choice) lay up the glass 3 - 4 layers end of day spread on filler. (4 hrs) day 3 fair rudder, put on barrier coat at end of day. (2-3hrs) Day 4 2 coats anti foul and splash 2hrs. Total 10 - 11 hrs of hands on labor. [I] would use the down time waiting for the epoxy to cure putting on some fresh anti foul.
Yep. Look at the West System website for instructions if you haven't done this kind of patch before: 12:1 feather, big pc. of glass first, then smaller as you build up layers. It should dry quickly. Most of the foam is closed-cell and holds little to no moisture.
__________________
Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 11-02-2012
CaptainForce's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: living aboard since 1972
Posts: 1,692
Thanks: 0
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 9
CaptainForce will become famous soon enough
Re: Rudder damage - urgent advice needed

I popped my rudder open coming into Key Largo at low tide about ten years ago and some time later the port side of the two laminations fell off. I hauled out and dropped the rudder. We used structural foam to replace the inside and new fiberglass to form the new starboard side. The new rudder was made strong and I feel it is far better than the original from the manufacturer. Your attention to the repair will likely result in a structure better than what was formerly there.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Take Care and Joy, Aythya Crew
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply

Tags
rudder failure?


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Storm damage to mast - need advice Dawghouseagain Gear & Maintenance 30 07-19-2011 04:22 PM
Fixable? advice on damage to an old lark... mvy18 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 3 03-06-2011 09:05 PM
rigger in Long Island, NY needed URGENT cspaniel General Discussion (sailing related) 15 05-24-2010 09:33 AM
Need some immediate marina advice - Urgent alan_21_us Chesapeake Bay 22 04-22-2008 02:02 AM
Daysailer rudder needed hardingt Gear & Maintenance 0 06-27-2001 10:59 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:51 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012