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justified 06-28-2012 07:10 PM

Liability
 
Not sure if this has been discussed before, if it has please point me to the correct thread for my reading and learning enjoyment.

If you hold a CG OUPV license at what point in time does any liabilities to you come into play. example: 1. You are an invited guest on someones boat ( power/ sail doesn't matter) for a enjoyable afternoon. Do you have any unintended or assumed liabilities because of your license if something goes wrong?
2. similar situation - you are crewing for someone ie; rail meat, sail trimmer, etc. same question
In both of these examples you were never asked to be skipper, captain, or in command.
Come on lets hear some thoughts.

Peter
Boat less but sailing OPB

ps23435 06-28-2012 07:24 PM

Liability
 
Generally there would be no legal liability unless you had some legal duty to act. Just having the OUPV license does not create such a duty. The only way I can think of any possible liability is that you might be held to a higher standard IF you did decide to take some action. You may
then be held to the skills and knowledge expected of someone with that level of training.

justified 06-29-2012 07:27 AM

Re: Liability
 
Thanks ps2 for the response, I was under the same opinion. This came up in a discussion with another local well known sailor/racer( can be arrogant and full of himself) when I said that myself and a couple others all got our OUPV's. The conversation went from there. I could understand assuming some more liability say if I were in the role as navigator and we hit a solid object, but even then I would think the final decision is that of the captain /helmsmen.
thanks again Peter

Capt.aaron 06-29-2012 08:12 AM

Re: Liability
 
I know becoming lisenced took a lot of the fun out of rec. boating for me. Even if I'm not liable, I feel it. I was on a delivery with 3 100 ton captains. One of them said the guy with the biggest tonnage on his ticket would be held ultimatly responsable. I never looked to see if that was true. What would we do, draw straw's?

KIVALO 06-29-2012 08:38 AM

Re: Liability
 
I don't know what the laws state but I do know that with personal injury lawyers, nothing is out of bounds. If your pockets are deep or even "sorta" deep (be it insurance or personal wealth) I wouldn't put it past them to sue you. Personal injury lawyers are lower than mobbed up loan sharks if you ask me.

Does the board have any lawyers that specialize in maritime case to offer a professional opinion?

Brad
s/v KIVALO

tommays 06-29-2012 09:02 AM

Re: Liability
 
My son is a prosecutor and we had a BIG discussion about this because the Safety at Sea waiver was so OUT OF CONTROL this year (I had to be liable if i damaged there docks :) )

In simple words you have to do something well out of normal and appropriate behavior for it to get very far AND by the same token Safety at Sea in reality could not in reality pre waiver behavior of there staff if they did something really out of the norm

Like for example shoot me in head with flare gun

capttb 06-29-2012 10:37 AM

Re: Liability
 
We used to oversimplify and consider that an officer could not be held personally liable unless he had committed a "feasance" violation. These are:
Non-feasance, you didn't do what you should have known (by your training and experience) needed to be done.
Mal-feasance, you did the right thing, but you did it badly or wrong, as you should have known as above.
Mis-feasance, you did the wrong thing, also as above

Silvio 06-29-2012 11:14 AM

Re: Liability
 
I am in agreement with ps23435 and capttb when they take the approach of being sued in tort. The fact of having a license should only be relevant as evidence to prove your negligent behavior compared to other professionals in the field OR if you were in a "for hire" capacity. If you are a guest, unpaid crew, or an observer to a catastrophe you are under no obligation to act unless there exists a relationship between you and the "victim" that gives rise to your responsibility such as parent-child, employer-employee, you are the cause of the dangerous situation, you have undertaken affirmative action to help which has been relied on by the victim, etc.

Should be an interesting discussion. Hopefully a legal professional practicing maritime law will offer a thought or two outside of a negligence tort approach.


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