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  #131  
Old 07-12-2012
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

My impression of the under 30 crowd is that they are very very social.

Sailing would have to appeal to their social side - new friends and comrades; not the solitude of a night watch.
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  #132  
Old 07-12-2012
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Adventure...exactly.

Here's the thing - if you have a decent sailboat on the ocean, you can, literally, point it toward any point on the planet and get there. It will be hard, it will be dangerous, but it is entirely possible.

That, my friend, is magic.
The "adventure" may be too big for some generations who are locked into the social media lifestyle, seem to need an "APP" for every crucial life skill and don't understand the "magic" of anything having difficult, dangerous or dirty in the equation. I wonder if there is a sort of "death of dreaming" in our younger society these days?

Glad I was able to get out while I was youngish... at 37.
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  #133  
Old 07-12-2012
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

I haven't posted much, been concentrating on working my way though every thread. This one personally resonates so here I go ...

My four brothers and I practically grew up on our Grampion, we lived minutes away from the town dock in Lindenhurst, NY. Full time Mom who grew up sailing in the UK and my Dad, an A&P mechanic with BOAC at Kennedy, was a Brooklyn boy whose father always had boats he'd keep at Howard Beach.

DH and I are in our late 40's with two boys, 14 & 15. We survived losing my husband's business a few years back - the economy was not kind to small businesses that served other small businesses - and I chose to leave a really good paying job as a corporate executive chef to become the world's most overqualified (C.I.A. grad) school lunch lady in order to be home more with the boys as they hit their teenage years. We are close to Naptown and the cost of living around here isn't the cheapest but we live carefully and frugally with no debt except for our mortgage but money is still tight, we struggle to not dip into let alone contribute to our meager savings to just get thorough each month but we are managing, happy and content with where things are.

Even with no real disposable income I've started pushing hard lately to get back into sailing for a couple of reasons:
1. I don't want to wake up next to my husband one morning and realize we have nothing to talk about after spending years concentrating on just barely keeping things together for the family
2. I want something the four of us can enjoy together as the boys get older
3. I cannot wait to see the them securely launched and independent, sell all our **** and take off to wander the earth having adventures; I suffer from seriously growing wanderlust. DH has never sailed before but cautiously agrees the idea is doable (I have no doubts) and thinks it sounds like a hoot
4. I've always had a thing for pirates
5. Duh ... we live close to Naptown

Coming up with a couple of large to take formal lessons isn't going to happen but we did take the 15 week CGA course over the last winter. The guys have always been heavy into scouting and have hooked up with the local Sea Scouts. It's a small, not very active ship but the couple of dads involved are awesome. We scored a couple of Groupons for half day intros at the Annapolis Sailing School and I'm about to pull the trigger on a family membership at Annapolis Community sailing - we got out a few weeks ago on their free-sail day and had a blast. My oldest is a STEM HS student and is doing his two week summer bridge program with the NSHF's Learning Math & Science Through Sailing Initiative program.

Anyway, that's where we stand as far as getting out on the water

Reckon I was the one taking this pic:

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  #134  
Old 07-12-2012
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

Quote:
Originally Posted by night0wl View Post

Seattle/Pacific Northwest is pricey, but not San Fran pricey. Great tech jobs area.
Year round sailing. You need cabin heat and good foulies. Better cruising than the SF area for sure.

Tough thread. Having worked and sailed a lot with 'younger' folks, personally, I just don't get all the slagging of the 20 somethings. A lot of it seems to be anecdotal information from crap like Huffpost and Fox about how crappy the uppity youngsters are. I just haven't found it to be true. The ones I know seem very focused, motivated, working hard trying to keep ahead in a truly uncertain and wild west economic environment. Just read about a young woman sailing and surfing her way around Mexico in something like a Catalina 23. I guess I've just had enough of the previous generation complaining about the next. It's old, it's tired, and makes me wonder if people even spend significant time with or know anyone under 40. If you're over 40, you have the good fortune of hindsight which makes many of the younger generations 'follies in progress' painful to watch. You know why? We've already been there and done that, but we forgot because somehow we've muddled through and all we have left are our very selective memories... if that. So to all of you pissing and moaning about the younger folks, I say get some out sailing with you. If they aren't interested in sailing with you, it's more than likely because you're too busy 'telling' and not listening or actually conversing. Will you meet some who really are tools? Sure, but not to any extent greater than you would have 20 or 30 years ago... hell, a 100 for that matter.
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  #135  
Old 07-12-2012
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

Quote:
Originally Posted by puddinlegs View Post
Year round sailing. You need cabin heat and good foulies. Better cruising than the SF area for sure.

Tough thread. Having worked and sailed a lot with 'younger' folks, personally, I just don't get all the slagging of the 20 somethings. A lot of it seems to be anecdotal information from crap like Huffpost and Fox about how crappy the uppity youngsters are. I just haven't found it to be true. The ones I know seem very focused, motivated, working hard trying to keep ahead in a truly uncertain and wild west economic environment. Just read about a young woman sailing and surfing her way around Mexico in something like a Catalina 23. I guess I've just had enough of the previous generation complaining about the next. It's old, it's tired, and makes me wonder if people even spend significant time with or know anyone under 40. If you're over 40, you have the good fortune of hindsight which makes many of the younger generations 'follies in progress' painful to watch. You know why? We've already been there and done that, but we forgot because somehow we've muddled through and all we have left are our very selective memories... if that. So to all of you pissing and moaning about the younger folks, I say get some out sailing with you. If they aren't interested in sailing with you, it's more than likely because you're too busy 'telling' and not listening or actually conversing. Will you meet some who really are tools? Sure, but not to any extent greater than you would have 20 or 30 years ago... hell, a 100 for that matter.

For any of you 20 somethings that would like to experience the cruising lifestyle and just happen to be in Asia in the next year or so let me know. You will be welcome to join AEVENTYR for a 1 Week trip, all onboard expenses paid, just get here. Limited to 1 young person only, any nationallity, race, creed, sex etc....PM me for the details.
Sorry, Smackdaddy you be too old for this one!
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  #136  
Old 07-12-2012
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

Quote:
Originally Posted by crstophr View Post
I'm about to turn 39. We live in the SF bay area and have great jobs, dual income, no kids, no debt (no CC, school loans, nothing). Our vehicles are all old and paid for, we save money every month. Sadly we live in an area where there are too many people and not enough housing. Rents are insanely high for even a modest place to live. Sales and fuel taxes make everything more expensive. We do OK but we have to be careful. God help us when we want to have kids.... in most other parts of the country we'd be living well at our income level. Not here. If you're older and you bought your house in the 80s and 90s you're doing great. if you bought lately... well... you're spending most of your available income paying a mortgage that 2-3 maybe 4x what your older neighbor pays. Salaries have not kept up with inflation and the rise of living expenses.

I think that good sailing areas tend to be high demand areas to live and the cost of living is very high. If you're a younger person with a mortgage you just can't reasonably justify a boat loan. If you're handy and have time to put work into it you can support an older boat. If not you can't afford the loan or the maintenance costs.

Someone please tell me where we can live so that I can get a good job with computers, support a family, have a reasonable cost of living, and still have a nice place to own a boat and sail. Any country will do. We dream of this life all the time...
You've got the right idea. Stay out of debt. Debt is slavery and affects all area of your life. Worrying about debt is the #1 cause of stress, depression, etc. It is surely a VERY bad idea to get in debt for a sailboat. As others have indicated, there are lots of very good old boats to be had in this economy. The expenses involved in owning a boat are high and should be in the "paid for in cash" category.

If you are making good salaries, keep saving, and employ "sweat equity" in everything you do, including a house. As far as living in a place with low housing costs, there are many. It's all about supply and demand. You may have to look on the outskirts of attractive areas and do some long commuting. Paying an extra couple of hundred bucks for gas each month to drive to work is a small amount compared to paying a thousand or more for rent in a place in the center of a high rent district.

If you find a place where you like to work (the majority of your waking time), like the people, the place, the salary, etc. This kind of career move should be the main concern. It is often wise to then find a house within driving range, in the outskirt zone where prices have not yet gone through the roof and the house will more likely gain in value. Don't buy some crappy tract house, built by a developer, build it right and do it yourself, even if that means simply hiring local contractors to do it.
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  #137  
Old 07-12-2012
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

Quote:
Originally Posted by puddinlegs View Post
Year round sailing. You need cabin heat and good foulies. Better cruising than the SF area for sure.

Tough thread. Having worked and sailed a lot with 'younger' folks, personally, I just don't get all the slagging of the 20 somethings. A lot of it seems to be anecdotal information from crap like Huffpost and Fox about how crappy the uppity youngsters are. I just haven't found it to be true. The ones I know seem very focused, motivated, working hard trying to keep ahead in a truly uncertain and wild west economic environment. Just read about a young woman sailing and surfing her way around Mexico in something like a Catalina 23. I guess I've just had enough of the previous generation complaining about the next. It's old, it's tired, and makes me wonder if people even spend significant time with or know anyone under 40. If you're over 40, you have the good fortune of hindsight which makes many of the younger generations 'follies in progress' painful to watch. You know why? We've already been there and done that, but we forgot because somehow we've muddled through and all we have left are our very selective memories... if that. So to all of you pissing and moaning about the younger folks, I say get some out sailing with you. If they aren't interested in sailing with you, it's more than likely because you're too busy 'telling' and not listening or actually conversing. Will you meet some who really are tools? Sure, but not to any extent greater than you would have 20 or 30 years ago... hell, a 100 for that matter.
Your opinion of those who posted here doesn't change the fact that...
-fewer people under 30 have their driver's license, the first step on the road to adventure and independence, than 30 years ago.
-fewer people under 30 are leaving home to live independently than 30 years ago. You can't blame the economy- young people were travelling the country in droves during the Depression, for example.
-interest in sailing is lower than it was 30 years ago. Fleets are smaller, sailors older.

Slag those of us here who are over 40 all you want, facts is facts. The gen Ys you meet may be "focused and motivated and working hard"... but maybe that's beacause , by your own admission you "work and sailed" with them. They have already drunk the kool-aid- Think your sample might be just as biased as you feel the opinions posted here are?



What does hearten me, being the over- 40, non- Huffington post reading, listening conversationalist that I am, is the flurry of teen circumnavigation that we haven't seen before...ever. I hope that over the next decade this translates into more interest, plants seeds that will grow the next generation of adventurers.
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  #138  
Old 07-12-2012
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

Yes costs of living is high, Yes inflation has overtaken wage growth, yes the economy is in the shite, yes we all have less leisure time, yes mortgages are hard, BUT I think it does come down to the individual and how badly you want it.

Our story is this.

My wife and I are living in a extremely expensive city by both national and worldwide standards. In our twenties we worked hard and while all our friends were complaining that no one our age could buy a place in this city, we scrimped and saved and did the overtime on the weekends and bought a dump of an apartment. We then spent our weekends working on the place, doing what we could.

Similarly we never though we could own a boat in our twenties, but again we saved and scrimped and bought something that wasn't pretty and needed work. We didn't have flash cars or cool holidays and for our first wedding anniversary I brought my beloved takeaway pizza and beer while repainting our antifoul.

Now in our 30s we have started our family, we own a small house, a beat up cruising boat that we were cruising the Queensland coast on last year and have structured our careers so that we can continue to have extended periods of time off to go cruising.

We are not rich. We have always just worked hard with moderate incomes and while we have perhaps had some luck we have also made life decisions over a 10 year period, sacrificed where we have had to, and stuck to our guns.

I say this not to blow smoke up my own ass, but to hopefully inspire those who are young and want to go cruising that it is doable.

To quote a Gen X/Y Icon Yoda "Do or do not. There is no try"
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Last edited by chall03; 07-12-2012 at 10:04 AM.
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  #139  
Old 07-12-2012
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

Quote:
What does hearten me, being the over- 40, non- Huffington post reading, listening conversationalist that I am, is the flurry of teen circumnavigation that we haven't seen before...ever. I hope that over the next decade this translates into more interest, plants seeds that will grow the next generation of adventurers.
I think this might be exsactly the reason younger generations are so messed up. Dad says to his little girl "Abby, wouldn't you like to sail around the world?"

"Yes Daddy, that would be amazing!"
"Well we better get you on a 5 year training plan and buy you a boat that I can equip up for you, I think $500k should be enough for a good boat."

This is not inspiring in the least, in fact it is further building the sterotype that you need a financier backing you to get out there and sail.

I am way more social now that I am cruising and away from TV, and a cubicle.

I think the drivers licence thing has more to do with apathy for a system that is complicated and expensive. The functionality of a car has not changed, but they are boring (silver, grey, black) and about as fun as a work cubicle. Another reason may be the push in society for everyone to think the same, look the same, and act the same. We are conditioned from kindergarden to be well behaved citizens. I think I was the first kid to ever get sent to the principals office in kindergarden, and now I'm 27, living on a boat in Panama, have a gorgeous and sane wife, and still have an apartment in one of the most expensive cities in the world. Plus two conformist university degrees. Creativity and outside the box thinking is dead in generation Y. This generation is too conditioned to follow "the rules".
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  #140  
Old 07-12-2012
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

Man, there seems to be a lot of negativity directed at the next upcoming generation. Sounds like a lot of bitter old men talking about how they raised themselves up by their bootstraps. I call ********. Many of you forget about help they got from a family member (interest free loan or gift) for that downpayment on that first fixer upper home....or the countless weekends that uncles/aunts/cousins that came over to help with home improvement projects or moving. Hypocrites...you have lost touch with reality, IMHO (and I'm likely closer to your age than these millenials).

What I believe is happening is a shift that happened in Japan a decade or so ago. Young people there have stopped buying cars, stopped getting married, stopped having kids...and you know why? Despite their best efforts to work and get ahead, they *CANNOT* get ahead. The dream has passed them over. The system is stacked against them...with elderly and older workers secure with pensions and beneficiaries of lifetime employment policies (because they vote in larger #'s). So the younger people do what any rational person does....they live within their means, cut back to the bone, dont get married (freedom to jump at that next opportunity..not settling down), dont have kids (expensive) and hope and pray for better days ahead. Its a lost generation...many of them are absolutely empty/dead inside because they have no wife or husband or children for support as their parents die off. Its really quiet, angry, despair...and that is the future you members of Baby Boom have handed off to your kids for the good times you squandered.

Look at the union concessions we've seen in Detroit and elsewhere...creating 2 tier systems protecting older workers and their rights/benefits, at the cost of younger workers. I see the same across the USA...so any rational person would expect the same results!

You old codgers should worry about this, who is going to buy your boat when you're ready to sell? Deflation is a spiral that is VERY tough to pull out of.
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Last edited by night0wl; 07-12-2012 at 11:18 AM.
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