The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising?? - Page 24 - SailNet Community
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post #231 of 909 Old 07-18-2012
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Re: costs problems

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Slip fees ? Why is it that so many people consider a marina pen to be an essential part of boat ownership ? Moorings are a damn sight more pleasant overall and the only downside is the need to row out to the boat. Oh woe.

edit - or is it that in many parts of America, mooring fields are non existent ?
Around Vancouver that's true.

No mooring fields here, and the safe anchorages are 2 week out of 4 only.
There are lots of places they could have moorings too.
I'd be happier paying that than 14-20$/ft/mo.


I am not ready to try my luck anchoring out on a fairly exposed lee shore all winter just yet
If I could have a mooring there I'd be more likely to risk it.

It's a catch 22 in some ways, a boat cheap enough to buy without a big loan(I got a large to me loan for my boat, and it's still unsafe for it until I finish the refit) is likely unsafe unless you can anchor somewhere with a bit of shelter.
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post #232 of 909 Old 07-19-2012
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Re: costs problems

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Around Vancouver that's true.

No mooring fields here, and the safe anchorages are 2 week out of 4 only.
There are lots of places they could have moorings too.
I'd be happier paying that than 14-20$/ft/mo.


I am not ready to try my luck anchoring out on a fairly exposed lee shore all winter just yet
If I could have a mooring there I'd be more likely to risk it.

It's a catch 22 in some ways, a boat cheap enough to buy without a big loan(I got a large to me loan for my boat, and it's still unsafe for it until I finish the refit) is likely unsafe unless you can anchor somewhere with a bit of shelter.
I feared that might be the problem. Poor you. Just to make you feel really bad we have a professionally laid (so fully insured) mooring 15 minutes from home for AUD$800.00 a year which is part of the reason why I cannot understand anyone being on a marina and paying that much a month.

Ah ... to clarify I can understand a permanent though still working liveaboard being on a marina. Even I would not want to row to shore each morning come rain hail or shine.

No way would I leave my boat on an anchor on a permanent basis.

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post #233 of 909 Old 07-19-2012
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Re: costs problems

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I feared that might be the problem. Poor you. Just to make you feel really bad we have a professionally laid (so fully insured) mooring 15 minutes from home for AUD$800.00 a year which is part of the reason why I cannot understand anyone being on a marina and paying that much a month.

Ah ... to clarify I can understand a permanent though still working liveaboard being on a marina. Even I would not want to row to shore each morning come rain hail or shine.

No way would I leave my boat on an anchor on a permanent basis.
I would be happy to make the commute. But to risk it all at anchor when they city will crush the boat after 48 hrs... I'll pass until I'm damn sure it'll stay put and safe.
I wish we were allowed to put down moorings here, I'd go put one down in a heartbeat if I was allowed!
getting to and from the boat was just fine by me. Except that I had only 2 weeks on my permit and they police carefully.
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post #234 of 909 Old 07-19-2012
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Re: costs problems

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I feared that might be the problem. Poor you. Just to make you feel really bad we have a professionally laid (so fully insured) mooring 15 minutes from home for AUD$800.00 a year which is part of the reason why I cannot understand anyone being on a marina and paying that much a month.

Ah ... to clarify I can understand a permanent though still working liveaboard being on a marina. Even I would not want to row to shore each morning come rain hail or shine.

No way would I leave my boat on an anchor on a permanent basis.
Can I PLEASE borrow your mooring in a few years? Maybe you'll be off cruising....
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post #235 of 909 Old 07-20-2012
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

Regarding the generations, there's this amazing difference in people's attitudes and lifestyles, and I notice more and more that I'm right in the middle of this huge generation gap. At the age of 35, I notice people in my age group, and slightly above, that seem to have no ambition, no drive, expect to have everything handed to them. They're not the majority, but there's a lot of them. Just below my age range seems to be where people like this transition to the majority. There are still a lot of driven 20 somethings, but the ones that are trying to make something of themselves seem to be in the minority.

Most of the "kids" that work in the shop I run seem to be content to just work there and get their paycheck, go out drinking and live at home with their parents. Some of these "kids" have already turned 30. My industry is one where someone with a little intelligence and a lot of drive can go from making minimum wage to making six figures within 5 years, easily. I know this because I did it, and my cousin who I got started in the business 6 months behind me, is in the same situation. At the same time, there's one guy in the shop in particular who was nothing but a helper when I started, and he's still there in the same position now, 7 years later. I went from being his trainee to being his boss, and he doesn't even see the problem with that. Now as his boss I try to get him to take an interest and put forth some effort, but he wants nothing more than to live in his parents basement and drink his paycheck away.

I know this is anecdotal, but I notice it everywhere. I see it in the shop where I work, hear about it from clients and colleagues, and read about it in the news and on the internet and on forums like this one. The world is shifting thanks to modern technology, but there isn't much any of us can do about it. The 24 hour news cycle and information overload society that require everyone to constantly be updated on everyone else status instantly means we spend so much less time doing and more time watching everyone else do. Couple that with the government and corporations constantly instilling fear in people so they buy now, spend now, get more, upgrade, and we see why people can't get ahead or even keep up. I'm doing very well by most people's standards, but I see what's coming and know that I need to keep working harder and harder just to maintain. Maybe I'm the fool and the "lazy" people have it right, there's no reason to put forth so much effort when the game is rigged, and always will be.

Where will the world be when the people who do put forth the effort now finally give in and stop putting forth so much effort?
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post #236 of 909 Old 07-20-2012
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Re: costs problems

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Can I PLEASE borrow your mooring in a few years? Maybe you'll be off cruising....

ah .... I forgot to mention the one major hitch. Only one boat is allowed to use the mooring and if I sell the boat it cannot stay on that mooring. New owner would have to apply for a mooring permit and there is usually a waiting list though I of course am allowed to put any boat I buy onto the mooring. If the mooring is vacant for more than three months the permit lapses. Should another boat appear on the mooring they would get a please explain after an unspecified time then a demand to move.

Where we are is funnily enough not high demand so we only had to wait three months when we first applied. If we tried for something closer to home the waiting list could stretch on for years. I confess though I am happy 15 minutes from home cos it is such a peaceful spot with virtually zero commercial traffic.

Other than , you are more than welcome to use it when we are away.
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post #237 of 909 Old 07-20-2012
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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Buy used. See my previous post above on the Catalina 25 for less than $2K.
Regarding budget limitations causing people to stay away from sailing...

Any suggestions for "budget" sailing in major metro areas, specifically Chicago. There are plenty of cheap boats out there, it's the slip/mooring anywhere near Chicago that's going to cost an arm and a leg, not to mention the required insurance to be in one of the marinas. I don't have a truck that can haul a boat in and out every time I want to go sail (and the only place to do so is the ramps at the marinas, and they charge heavily for their use and vehicle parking), and nowhere to store a boat on a trailer anyway. As far as I can tell, thanks to city/state laws, there's nowhere to legally anchor and just leave the boat on the hook somewhere.

Advice for someone really trying to get into sailing more???
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post #238 of 909 Old 07-20-2012
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Re: costs problems

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I would be happy to make the commute. But to risk it all at anchor when they city will crush the boat after 48 hrs... I'll pass until I'm damn sure it'll stay put and safe.
I wish we were allowed to put down moorings here, I'd go put one down in a heartbeat if I was allowed!
getting to and from the boat was just fine by me. Except that I had only 2 weeks on my permit and they police carefully.
I had my boat for 2 years in my father in law's back yard. When we put it on the trailer with a travel lift at the yard and started driving to his house, I said,"how are we going to get the boat off the trailer?" as it was rented. "I don't know." he replied. I said I don't care if we tie it to a tree and drive away with the trailer....so we did. I ran a chain through the hole where the shaft once was, and wrapped the other end around a tree. we inch by inch, yanked the boat off the trailer, setting it on a row of 6x6's. With lines off the sides to keep it upright. ( I have a point here) We then augered out holes and installed an old car lift, like from a garage, on either side. Long story short, when I was finally ready to splash. I needed a mooring, but it's illegal to drop your own mooring. so. (here's my point) I cut the bottom three feet off the old car lift stands, wich are what I call " home made anchors". So, I am now in creek, with 2, 150 pound "home made anchors" not a mooring. Some thing to think about. "no officer, That is an anchor not a mooring, " < you can probably find anchor shaped, heavy objects at a junk yard, that you can raise with a windlass, or two healthy dudes, if you need to. It's working for me.
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Last edited by Capt.aaron; 07-20-2012 at 08:17 PM.
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post #239 of 909 Old 07-20-2012
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Re: costs problems

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I snippy wich are what I call " home made anchors". So, I am now in creek, with 2, 150 pound "home made anchors" not a mooring. Some thing to think about. "no officer, That is an anchor not a mooring, " < you can probably find anchor shaped, heavy objects at a junk yard, that you can raise with a windlass, or two healthy dudes, if you need to. It's working for me.

Aaron,
What do you do when you go sailing ? Surely you don't haul the "anchors" aboard and if you set a buoy wouldn't that legally define them as a mooring.

Or ... is it poorly policed ?

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post #240 of 909 Old 07-20-2012
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

I anchor near where I have the home mades, and snorkle down an retreve my line. it's in about 10 feet of clear sub, tropical water. I used to mark it with and old lobster trap bouy, but came back and found some fisherman tied to it, so now i just cast off and let the line sink. For a year i was tied to just one of the feet, but i would drag a little in a big blow as the bottom is hard, Not very good holding, The other day I daisy chained the other piece to the first one. They are not for traveling. I also have another mooring in the creek that is four Dumb bells chained together. Each way's 100 pounds, so collectivly they way 400. but can be man handled individually. I scored those off the back of the tug boat i work on, some big dude used to work out with them. Those Are great as a centinal. So you anchor with say, a 70 pound danforth, but shackle the dumbells mid scope. It's not a mooring, but as good as. I've been skirting around this illeagal mooring law for over 20 years and have never had a problem. the law here is, you have to be able to raise it if they tell you to, if you can raise it, then it's not a mooring. My car lift feet kind of look like anchors, I' would have to swim down and un shackle one from the other to raise it, but i can raise it. I actually have them set up like centinals as I have 30 feet of chain running north from them with a 45 danforth on the other end. Marking it with a bouy does'nt classify it as a mooring. I used to cast off my anchor and leave it marked with a bouy. lot's of people here do that. They buy a 100 pound anchor and leave it marked. It's not a mooring, just really big anchor.
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Last edited by Capt.aaron; 07-20-2012 at 11:04 PM.
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