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  #351  
Old 01-07-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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Originally Posted by ctl411 View Post
Stop paying your taxes and see if you "own" it.
True. But until then, I still own it.
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  #352  
Old 01-07-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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Originally Posted by DRFerron View Post
Unless, of course, they DO own them, like I own mine along with the dirt it is built on. No mortgage and a deed that says so. Let's be careful about generalizing.
Sorry.....meant to say "most', I do realize that very few things in life apply to everyone......and unlike some posters I do realize and appreciate, one of the major differences about the boating world is that it gives you a better opportunity to do things your own way....forums are a good source of guidance, though you have to weigh what is said. Some people are knowledgeable and some people are totally clueless but thin they are right and everyone else is wrong. "Those that think they know everything piss off those of us that do"
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  #353  
Old 01-07-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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Originally Posted by ctl411 View Post
Stop paying your taxes and see if you "own" it.
Depending on the jurisdiction, all you have to do is be in a area that's need for expanding an airport or running a new highway. They might choose to pay you for it but often they don't have to or they get to define "fair market value". Still, the government's claim doesn't mean you're not better off without a bank involved.

Even beach cats are getting harder to own. Where do you keep it? I've had mine in 2 clubs: 1 was reasonably priced but really too small of a lake for a cat and you can walk across it by August some years. The other just keeps ratcheting up the prices with all of the benefits going to the adjacent marina. It'll cost more than buying an old Hobie 16 every second year soon. I'm lucky enough to have a house but, like with most affordable houses built in the last decade or two, I can't legitimately keep a cat on the front lawn and it's physically impossible to get the trailer into the backyard. Cottage prices are prohibitive so that's not an option unless you pick your parents well. If I store it at a storage facility (also not cheap) and use public ramps, I'll find that half of them have powerlines or trees running right over them. Sure, people who really want to will still find a way but what about people who would've gotten hooked on sailing if they could try it out a little more? You can work around any one of these things but how do you get motivated to do so in the first place?
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  #354  
Old 01-07-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

The only taxes I have to pay are "lease hold" taxes (a tax on slip rental), when I no longer live in a marina I will not have to pay those. As far as income tax......I haven't made enough money to pay income tax in over ten years.
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  #355  
Old 01-07-2013
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Thumbs up Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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Originally Posted by Capt.aaron View Post
I blame Hippity hop music. Find a person in ther early 20's who does'nt listen to exclusively Hip Hop music. It's all they know. 20 years ago when I was in my early 20's and living aboard/ cruising the Caribbean, we listend to a more organic, music orientated music, Kid's these day's want bling and ho's, not the slow, hard won satisfaction of dancing with nature. Even most of the young sailors of today are on racing circuts or kite boards. Playing at the beach I call it. There are a few young people with a call to the wild and a wander lust, as long as they can get service.
This is pretty funny. You're right for about 75% of the population, averaged & depending on where they live and how they were raised. I hold a lot of respect for your comments on sailnet, and I'm being sincere and respectful here. I totally understand why more 40+ aged adults feel this way about younger people (20-30 year olds) these days, we've certainly not proven to be very credible lately..and that's another subject.

In case you would like a refresher that there's still some hope for the 20-30 year old generation of wannabe thugs and cell-phone-clenching video game players, unable to be 100% responsible for their own lives, there are still some people out there who stand out of the norm. In my social circles, my friends listen to hiphop or house, the pop noise on the radio, party until 6am and sleep all day on the weekends. I'm 26 with a full-time career, I can fit in with them when I need to, then I can go hang out with my 66 year old dad (on his boat) and talk about all the culture and music from the 60's, 70's and 80's and have adult conversations about business and life and enjoy that more, as if I was a 60 year old buddy. Finally, when my 20-something friends see that side of me, they're actually kind of jealous, maybe they feel lazy, they're kind of tools of popular marketing. Additionally, I worked two jobs through college to reach a lifestyle of sailing, had a lot of fun and saved enough to buy my sailboat out-right. Now I have chosen to, because I want to, live on it full-time. Buying a house was absolutely out of the picture, I couldn't even decide where I would want to live for that long, but the boat was a perfect and easy choice. Having an asset, and a valued, "old-fashioned" hobby like sailing, definitely gets my friends to open their eyes a little and realize 'maybe it's time to grow up'. I think that the trend over the past 40 years is that teenagers don't match the same timeline and benchmarks of adulthood nowadays that yourself and people in their 40s-60s used to. Marriage happens at an older age, finding a secure job happens at an older age, buying a house happens at an older age, sometimes none of these things even happen to people until they're in their 30s now. So my guess is that picking up the interest of sailing will happen at an older age. Whether people were exposed to it as a kid or not, sometimes it's a passion a person doesn't know is inside of them until they're taken out on a sailboat on a perfect day.

I'm just one example. I haven't yet met someone my age who has the same values as me, but I am confident there's a lot of mature, enthusiastic 20-somethings out there for the sport of sailing. Yet Believe me, I wish there were way more people my age who participated in sailing, too. Maybe it's time for a prime-time reality show about it? (joking)

Hopefully things like the multi-hulls racing in SF (and on TV) this upcoming summer will spark some interest among all the 20-somethings in SF who will initially use it as a reason to day-drink and walk down to the water and if it sparks the sailing bug within them, then all the marketing campaigns and money poured into will eventually be reflected back into the sailing industry.
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  #356  
Old 01-07-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

wolfenzee: people can own their houses outright or pay a mortgage, just like they can own their boats outright or pay a loan.

I'm 38 which probably doesn't make me count as "young" from the point of view of this thread. However at least half of the friends that I sail with have owned their own boat in their 20s. The ones who own their boats are generally sailing multiple times per month too. A lot of them have well paying jobs, but not all of them do.

There are ways for those who don't have a lot of money to get into sailing, they just don't involve buying their own boats. Students at UW in Seattle can join the sailing club for a very low price and get access to a decent fleet and instruction. Non-students can take sailing classes at CWB and then volunteer to get more free sailing time. Rental here through an outfit like Windworks is a lot cheaper than even moorage if you are only sailing one or two full days per month. I like owning my own boat because I enjoy working on it myself and like being able to take it for long cruises, but if I look at it objectively I see it as a waste of money.

Reading through a few pages of this thread shows all of the worst of sailnet: lots of assumptions, stereotypes, and incorrect information.
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  #357  
Old 01-07-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.aaron View Post
Well put. That's all true. You live in Hood River, so you are exposed to a much different crowd than say someone from...well, not there. Hood River is speacial and has a special bunch of adventure seeking young people. Key west is a lot like that. I have exposed many young people to the cruising scene, sailed many many backpackers around Central America over the last 20 years and still do. I've inspired countless people to buy their first boat and give it a shot. I was and still am the go to guy in key West when people young and old are looking. (There is a blue water, full keel, double ender at Robbies Marina for 500 bucks if any one is looking) I've brought 20 somethings to 60 somethings between Mexico and the Key's many times and am sailing down with my 72 year old father in law in april. I'm the youngest 42 year old on my block. My neighbor told me to pull my pants up the other day. ( I honestly did'nt have a belt, it was'nt a fashion statement) But I do see, however, a trend in the mass populas of today's young 20 somethings to be less interested in getting out there. It's true the cookie cutter kids never where the ones to get out there and the ones that have and do, are remarkable.
Capt Aaron, Your quote is well put and like many out there your a mentor. You also understand that out of the many millions of 20 somethings out there there are only so many that are interested in sailing as it has always been.

This thread is about, The future of sailing why are there so few young sailing.

I just don't understand some posters logic that there are few because of the cost of a boat, the economic situation we are in, or the young are preoccupied with phony self gratification. All that is true for sure but it has always been that way. But every 20 or 30 something that is out sailing has found a way around all that one way or another because it is truely what they want to do more than anything else.
There are many out there all over the world cruising. There are many more sail racing and lots of those will eventually go cruising when they are ready. Go to Marblehead, Hingham, Ma, Long Island sound, Galviston TX, San Fran, San Diego, Hood River, Seattle, every port in Western Europe, NZ and Aussy and you will see the sailing schools are full of teenagers and younger learning to sail. The right few of those will be cruisers some day.
I could give the blog or website to many young cruisers all over the world sailing and not only sailing but doing wonderful things for poor schools or medical clinics in third world countries. I will give just on example and I hope they don't mind me sharing their website with so many people.
Équipage - Juan Sa Bulan It is French but you can change it to English and just take a look at their photos and see what a great time they are having on their way to Cape Horn. That is what is out there and in my 40 years of sailing I don't see many changes in those who want to really go cruising. Again it does not matter the condition of the world those who really want to go find a way the rest just keep finding reasons not to.

Cheers
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  #358  
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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Originally Posted by wolfenzee View Post
With a house, people don't really own them, they just pay the bank for the privilege of being able to say they own piece of dirt when they don't. I own my boat 100% and nothing I owe (or ever will owe) will but that in jeopardy. Similarly there is a distinct line between making a boat a home....when you make it yours, put who you are into it. Getting other people to recognize that you actually own it is not as hard as getting people to recognize and accept that you actually live on and will continue to live on it.
As to the future of the sailing industry it is at mercy of the marketing industry, new boats are out of most peoples reach, at one time the industry figured the "average" sailor was a husband, wife and kids who did coastal cruisng on weekends and stayed in marinas, because the housewife controlled the purse strings the interior was designed accordingly, resulting in comfy, easiliy handled though slow boats. Another trick the marketing industry likes to push is put design features from racing boats on cruising boats (if it is on a racing boat it will make my boat go faster right...unless of course it was actually there to fool the handicapping rules) which ended up with boats that took more work than should be found on a cruising boat. The boat industry (just like the car industry) would rather sell a small number of excessively expensive boats, than try and build boats more people can afford....new boats are for people with more money than sense, you can get a much better boat for alot less used.
Sorry Wolf but I think you are wrong on this. If people buy the types of boats you mention where the wife holds the purse strings so what, that is what people want it has nothing to do with going cruising, they want a boat just like they got. Ya some may talk big about dreaming about going world cruising but that is all all most all of them will ever do, dream. But if they really want to go they give the wife or the husband the ultimatum if that don't work they part ways. You meet cruisers everywhere who really wanted to cruise no matter what it cost and parted the relationship or better yet told the kids they will have to pay for their university education themselves. That is what it really takes for most of us who really want cruise. Great sacrifice yes but that is why as it has always been so few cruising.

As for you can get a better deal buying a used boat over a new boat that is only a N. American idea. Yes if your on a very limited budget yes that can be true, But many middle class folks in Europe, NZ and Aussy are buying good cheep bluewater boats new. They must give up a lot to do so but they are ready to do so. It is sad that N. Americans do not have good information on good boats being built in Europe and other parts of the world. Any brand new bluewater boat from 250K to 500 K US is cheaper than a great bluewater boat cost 25 years ago and by far. New boats are for people with more money than sense is a truelly strange way to put it. A lot of people around the world are educated in modern design and want a new design that will do exactly what they are looking for. PCP has done such a good job on " interesting boat designs" thread to try and educate those who have the dream of cruising what is out there. The new bluewater boat building in Europe is very healthy. As for 20 something cruising a lot of them are on new boats that cost under 200K some of these twenty somethings worked as Auto body mechanics or street cleaners but they saved, sacrificed and are sailing for real.

Cheers
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  #359  
Old 01-07-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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Originally Posted by ctl411 View Post
Stop paying your taxes and see if you "own" it.
Stop paying your dockage or mooring fees and see if you still "own" your boat.
TRANSTAAFL.
You just get to choose the lunch you want to buy, and whether you pay cash.
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  #360  
Old 01-07-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

Had an interesting experience the other night. There were four cruising boats in Mossel Bay (near Cape Agulhas in South Africa which is pretty serious cruising ground) so we decided to get together for a braai (BBQ). Such social affairs are common for cruisers but this one had a big difference, my wife and I were the only ones over 37 and most were around 30 cruising on modest boats, but now most of the way around the world. Someone made the comment that once you got to Cocos Island, ie committed to crossing the Indian Ocean, the proportion of younger cruisers went up substantially. Younger cruisers typically need to get home before the money runs out.

BTW we have seen as many young Swedes cruising as all other countries combined,
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