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The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

119K views 908 replies 179 participants last post by  captain jack 
#1 ·
I'm curious on opinions on this one. When Baby boomers were in their 20's there were lots of them in small capable sailboats (some they made themselves) cruising across oceans; but now-a-days the majority of twenty-year olds appear to be utterly useless. I just don't get it, and I'm in my twenties, and cruising.


I'm also curious as to where people think the future of the sailing industry is going if there are so few young people involved?

Any thoughts?
 
#2 ·
Economy sucks the young are being hit the hardest and in any form sailing is a luxury even in a smaller cheaper boat.

On the flip side young people want to go faster in everything they do and sailing will never fit that bill.

Sailing going noware reduced maybe but the allure of sailing will always be around and as full prices go up since we all know they will just a fact of things i think the fuel advantage will increase numbers.

I kind of wonder if there won't be innovations that come from it things that make sailing even easier and more accessible and more motor sail boats.

My 2 cents
 
#13 ·
Economy sucks the young are being hit the hardest and in any form sailing is a luxury even in a smaller cheaper boat.
Spot on - they don't have reliable, well paid employment so they are unwilling to commit to a long term financial involvement. Much easier to buy high tech toys that can move with them if (when) they lose their McJob.

On the flip side young people want to go faster in everything they do and sailing will never fit that bill.
I don't know about that - the BB were the ones that muscle cars were manufactured for but they still bought lots of sailboats too.

There are lots of kids that like sailing, they just can't afford the commitment.
 
#5 ·
One must also consider that since the 'baby boom' generation the level of prosperity and the growth level of 'prosperity' has declined thus producing less 'disposable income', especially for those 'younger'.

With the purposeful pursuit of (by whatever reason) a decreased 'industrialization' and its accompanying lessening of 'profits' producing 'disposable income' in forced decline ... no one should really be surprised.

Id opt that those global areas where industrialization is rapidly growing, that those 'young' people have a greater and increasing measure or percent of 'disposable income' .... ie. sailing, skiing, ... 'leisure time', etc. etc. etc. are on the increase. The 'western world' is now essentially a service (servant) economy or is essentially 'flipping cash', while many other regions of the globe are rapidly expanding industrially and with its accompanying prosperity. The economic equilibrium of 'prosperity' has begun to rapidly shift away from the 'western' world to the 'developing' world. I wouldnt want to be a 'young person' in today's 'western world' with its apparently forced or self imposed reduction of 'opportunity'. From my narrow perspective, 'authoritarianism' and 'mob-rule democracy' usually and historically results in a declining level of the overall/average standard of living ... .
 
#25 ·
One must also consider that since the 'baby boom' generation the level of prosperity and the growth level of 'prosperity' has declined thus producing less 'disposable income', especially for those 'younger'.

With the purposeful pursuit of (by whatever reason) a decreased 'industrialization' and its accompanying lessening of 'profits' producing 'disposable income' in forced decline ... no one should really be surprised.

Id opt that those global areas where industrialization is rapidly growing, that those 'young' people have a greater and increasing measure or percent of 'disposable income' .... ie. sailing, skiing, ... 'leisure time', etc. etc. etc. are on the increase. The 'western world' is now essentially a service (servant) economy or is essentially 'flipping cash', while many other regions of the globe are rapidly expanding industrially and with its accompanying prosperity. The economic equilibrium of 'prosperity' has begun to rapidly shift away from the 'western' world to the 'developing' world. I wouldnt want to be a 'young person' in today's 'western world' with its apparently forced or self imposed reduction of 'opportunity'. From my narrow perspective, 'authoritarianism' and 'mob-rule democracy' usually and historically results in a declining level of the overall/average standard of living ... .
HUH? :D..........

No, that's all true, I think the point is to, rather than look at sailing as a past time for the well off, or as "sport" for the sporty, Something for disposable money, look at it as a way of life, Move on to the boat, keep it simple, work in a town with an anchorage. I was making a Sh$t load of daily cash in the bar business. Most people don't belive me when I tell them what I made, and lived on the hook for free, paddled in on an old wind surf board with a milk crate screwd to the back, that I locked to a chain link fence, had a bicycle, no cell phone. I was making white collar money and living a no collar life style. I hated turning 35 and getting serious, and I'm looking forward to going back to that basic way of life. The "real" job I have now pay's less than the bar tending gig. But I have 401 K, health and dental, stock etc. The boat is still on the hook and does'nt cost me a dime unless I want it to.
 
#6 · (Edited)
I moved on to my Grand fathers old sail boat when I was 18 because it was affordable housing. It was free. I had it out on the hook and worked in town. It was all I could afford. He had taught me how to use it so I started sailing around to places with a decent anchorage and little town to work in. That was 23 years ago. still have the boat on the hook and I live on when I'm not at sea on other boats. I see a lot of 20 somethings doing the same thing and hope more and more realize there is a surplus of baby boomer boats up for grabs. It's buyers market, look at that 16 year old kid from the other thead, he got one for free.
 
#366 · (Edited)
I revisited my original post on this thread to restate my original philosophy on the subject. I made an off the cuff joke yesterday about hipity hop music with some half truth thrown in to give the humor some weight behind it. That being said, there is a sh!t load of thick hulled, blue water ( by my definition) live aboards out there for under 5 grand. My boat would be hard to sell for more than 3 thousand dollars and is a few used sails away from another trip down south. Needs and wants are individual, for me, the comforts of the gadget boat is something earned through years of bare bones cruising, this way you realize 80% of the crap on the boat is just neat, not necasary. For instance, I have a thick well designed hull with no thru hulls below the water line so I should be able to float through all comers, this is a need. I have a slightly over sized rig and a strong home built rudder, I should be able to get some forward motion and steer to a destination, another need. Then I build from there. A compass makes navigation easier, Water, food, a mast head running light, an aviation style life raft an old wind surf board to paddle around on. I gutted the wire out of my boat and decided this year I'm using head lamps and 2 sticky backed lcd's painted red with nail polish for interior lighting. The only gadget on board that uses the house bank for electricity is the mast head tricolor so a flexi solar pannel matt is all the charging I need. I'm ranting on the how simple it can be, because IMO seperating needs and wants is crucial to the financially challenged youth in order to enable them to get started in the life. My take on bare bones was spawn from desire, handicapped by lack of funds coupled with the knowledege that dudes where doing it 500 years ago with more than I had at the time. K.I.S.S and "go small, go now" are more than just an acronym and mottto, they are actual truths. ...( oh yeah, the VHF, I often forget about this gadget cuz I almost never use it. It's on when I'm off shore and turned low enough hear, but I rarley hear any traffic out there and by the grace of god have never needed to call any body.)
 
#7 ·
Agreed that standards of living are going down, BUt I can afford a way better life here in Panama and can scratch by with some work online.

I'm thinking it has a lot to do with inflated expectations for a higher than deserved standard of living, hence people who are almost thirty living with their parents, growing up in a zero failure world (which is not a good way to encourage hard work), and the expectation that the world owes them something (careers, high standards of living, education)

It really isn't a financial thing (I've been on both sides of the fence: student debt, long term unemployment, lacked a real job) and cruising, you have no money either way.

AMEX came out with a survey showing that young people spend tons of money on travel and luxury goods. It must be a mental thing. The ocean is pretty intimidating, not big snowboard jump intimidating, but kill you if it decides to intimidating. I'm guessing backpacking and all-inclusives are just easier to do.
 
#45 ·
I'm thinking it has a lot to do with inflated expectations for a higher than deserved standard of living, hence people who are almost thirty living with their parents, growing up in a zero failure world (which is not a good way to encourage hard work), and the expectation that the world owes them something (careers, high standards of living, education)

AMEX came out with a survey showing that young people spend tons of money on travel and luxury goods. It must be a mental thing. The ocean is pretty intimidating, not big snowboard jump intimidating, but kill you if it decides to intimidating. I'm guessing backpacking and all-inclusives are just easier to do.
I think you have hit the nail on the head.

My wife and I are in our early 30's, and cruising the east coast here in Oz we have not once meet anyone cruising younger than us.

You can't say our generation isn't into travel or adventure, these are both booming industries, but I just think sailing/cruising has just fallen out of vogue.

I also think (and this is going to make me sound old), that Generation Y just lacks the patience, persistence, discipline and courage to see a dream like cruising through.That is a generalisation of course, but it is generally true. This is the instant generation, the no consequence generation, if it feels good do it, and if I can say it a spoilt generation.

It is surprising on this forum and others the amount of young people who come and post the obligatory " I want to buy a cheap boat and sail off into the sunset" thread and then after realising a few tough realities they tend to disappear forever.

One such couple in there 20's here is Australia started a buy a cheap boat and sail around the world thread on another forum about a year ago. They seemed quite genuine and determined at the time and were very impressed that we were off sailing the Great Barrier Reef. "how did you do it?" They asked. I told them... "well we worked hard for 10 years, saved our money, stopped going out for dinner, stopped buying new clothes/cars or TV's, and spent our time learning about sailing and working on boats. Most of all we committed to our dream, made the sacrifices and saw it through"

I have since PMed them a few times and kept in contact on email. Last update they did take some beginner sailing lessons and they liked going to marinas to look at the boats on sunny weekends. For the moment they have however decided to rent a new apartment with a waterview instead. They have been to Malaysia twice, been to a few really nice day spas they recommended, and were thinking of learning to dive, maybe as part of the next holiday. They say they are still looking for a boat.......

My suspicion sadly is that they will probably never buy the boat or go cruising, let alone around the world.

It is however very inspiring when I do hear about true young adventurers who are out there doing something so very counter-cultural. Good on ya guys :) :) :)
 
#8 ·
I'll Argus that Boats have Become bigger and more complex.

The 20 something's of yore might have sailed a Lido 14 with other young couples. When they were in their 30s, they bought a "cruising" boat - perhaps a Schock 25 ftr. Just enough to weekend. By the time they were in their 50s, they had made the big plunge and moved up to a huge boat - a Santana 30.


These days, a 30 ftr is sold as a 'tiny' boat.
 
#9 ·
I'll Argus that Boats have Become bigger and more complex.

The 20 something's of yore might have sailed a Lido 14 with other young couples. When they were in their 30s, they bought a "cruising" boat - perhaps a Schock 25 ftr. Just enough to weekend. By the time they were in their 50s, they had made the big plunge and moved up to a huge boat - a Santana 30.

These days, a 30 ftr is sold as a 'tiny' boat.
Totally agree with that. If you look at any Sail Mag. it appears that 'starter' boats are 40ft. and costing a minor fortune.

The same plunge in youth participation happened in skiing. A full 'outfit' would cost well over $2000 for top quality stuff. And then, SnoBoarding arrived, was 1/5 -1/10th the price for the equipment and the dying 'snowsports' industry made a dramatic comeback ... until the price of a lift ticket met the resurgent enthusiasm and the snowsports industry is going through another decline simply because its too damn expensive for 'young-uns' to afford.

So who makes a reasonably priced modest entry level sailboat? ... virtually no one, simply because the ROI for the manufacturers is too slim. Even a 14ft. rowing dink far exceeds the cost of my first reasonably equipped '30 footer' of 40 years ago.
 
#11 ·
"The baby boomers had the world given to them on a plate so they took advantage. "
"College debt...
Last generation graduated with virtually none...this generation has a too much. "

I guess I must have been standing in the wrong line, didn't even get the plate... and apart from a few trust fund types, every boomer I know has worked their a$$es off their whole life.
Apparently there are a lot of recent college graduates that are just starting to realize that college loans need to be repaid, and with the job market so bad I'm sure this is somewhat of a contributing factor, how much I don't know.
I'm sitting here writing this while looking at my son's beautiful cruising boat out on our mooring, while he's working hard to make ends meet for his family, and doesn't even have time to use it (and we all know how the market is for trying to sell a boat now). IMO, it's entirely the economy and high unemployment rate that is reducing the number of younger people that are cruising.
 
#19 ·
"The baby boomers had the world given to them on a plate so they took advantage. "
"College debt...
Last generation graduated with virtually none...this generation has a too much. "

I guess I must have been standing in the wrong line, didn't even get the plate... and apart from a few trust fund types, every boomer I know has worked their a$$es off their whole life.
Apparently there are a lot of recent college graduates that are just starting to realize that college loans need to be repaid, and with the job market so bad I'm sure this is somewhat of a contributing factor, how much I don't know.
My wife & I were in that same line. :)

College debt is WAY more than it was for us though. AFAIAC far too many people go to University these days - a degree has been rendered far less valuable and meaningful through this process - a bachelors degree is the new high school diploma and far too many of them are never used in any meaningful way. They are merely a very expensive entry on a resume.

University should be for scholars and academics, not "everyman" job training - it does a very poor job of that in most cases. Why should a car sales rep need a Bcomm degree? A Ba to be a realtor?
 
#18 ·
That's true but you are also locked in to moorage, insurance, haulouts etc. etc.

Without secure, well paid employment, it's a commitment few are willing to make.
 
#16 ·
Ironically, it was the only thing i could afford to do. On a good day my boat has never been worth more that $5,000. I inheritad it, but none the less, What if i paid the price of a good used car for it and moved a board. When I was 23, I had no rent, no bills, none! food, but i deliverd tacos on my bike and ate at the resturaunt, but other than that none!! because I lived on a little sloop in the bay behind Miami beach. When i didn't have any money to enjoy town, i would go sailing, it was free, still is.
 
#20 · (Edited)
There are a few out here in the Eastern Carribbean including one US couple who bought an old Tartan 34 out here for less than $10k and are starting off on a two year adventure hopefully finishing up back in the USA before having to go back to work.

I helped them fix their old Johnson and showed them how to cook breadfruit.

Talking about why they chose to do this they said they thought it would be safer than backpacking around the world.
 
#22 ·
Funny thing is, my wife and I had such a hard time finding a career, working bad part time jobs that we decided to give it up and go sailing. We had no money then and we have no money now. We enjoy life 1000 times more now, and our peers are misserable and struggling to pay rents and live an unsustainable lifestyle of drinking and eating out, paying for ski lift tickets or boat rentals. They spend all their money on things that they never own or get to keep the utility of, and work to pay for it.

Debt is an issue, when it goes towards something that doesn't have a payout, like university right now.

The boomers I know who were cruising when they were in their twenties had nothing either...not many people in their earlier years have had anything in any generation, you work for it.

That's true but you are also locked in to moorage, insurance, haulouts etc. etc.

Without secure, well paid employment, it's a commitment few are willing to make.
This is completely wrong: no one insures a $2500 boat, you live off the hook, and you use tidal grids or tracks once every 4 years to do the bottom, the rest of the time you dive on it.

I do agree with people being brain washed into thinking a 35ft boat is entry level
 
#23 ·
There may be more new poor sailors out there than you sea at your locked gate marina.Always a looked down upon minority by the well healed ,some will develop skills and finances to ride the crest. others bide their time till family or habits cause a movement (out or ?) OTOH when I go uptown to be met by a hoodi, stylin blue jeans and $150 runners with an Ipod whose greeting is Spare Change?' ,lack of sympathy wells in my heart. I mean, What ever happened to 'Whas up?' ?
 
#27 ·
I can only speak for myself....

But I think some of this may more generally apply to the Gen Xers as I don't think my situation was atypical:

(1) My parents divorced when I was young and I was raised by my mother.

Although a pretty adventurous lass, she didn't know how to sail. Most kids are taught how to sail by their dads and grandfathers, most likely. Hardly anyone of my generation knows how to sail.

(2) College tuition tripled, and the real minimum wage hit a 30 year low.

Combined, this meant working your way through college was no longer an option for pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstrap types, the kind of weirdos who tend to take to sailing ;). Faced with the choice of signing up to go to Iraq, or taking out student loans, I did the later. $700 a month student loan payments take a lot of the potential adventure out of your 20s.

(3) Middle class jobs went away, health insurance and other costs skyrocketed.

If you've got a white collar job, it's hard to ask for the weeks off to go for a cruise when your Starbucks barista has an MS in engineering. Fear and debt again.
 
#28 ·
The cost of living has increased for people as well these days. not necessary the actual cost of living but the perceived cost of living.
What am i talking About?
Well like many when i grew up we weren't necessary poor definitely not rich but we had food for every meal.
You listened to the radio for entertainment
Nobody had ac you slept with a pile of blankets in the winter
No computers
No cells
No pods
No cable tv bill obviously

Anyway i could go on and on about what didn't exist. The point that im trying to make is even if relative pay was the same the amount of crap that's available to the people today increases there perceived living expenses ten fold. Anyway again my two more cents.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Now we are talking about need's and want's. Most people's " absolutally need's" are my "don't even want's." After food, water, shelter and clothing every thing else is Gravy. I haven't had this lap top for a year and I certainally don't need it. What young people need to do is get real about what they need and focus on that. I needed to move on to Grand pa's little sloop because it was realisitcally all I could afford. I needed to not have the over head of rent, cable, car insurance, and what ever else townies thought they needed. I needed to live in a town small enough to get around on a bike, anchor out for free and work for tips. People talk about how expensive the Key's or Miami is and I'm like, that's the only place I can afford to live! warm all year, EZ living, good holding, tourist dollars to be had. I was making a bit less, but not far from three figures working for tips at the same time my pears where in cubicles with their degree's, loans and huge over head.
 
#30 ·
I doubt the basic premise that there were lots of baby boomers cruising the oceans in their twenties. Sure some might have. A lot of boats were under 30' and I recall a survey showing most would prefer a couple of feet more.
The reality was for most they married and had children by their mid twenties. Those interested who had not had the chance as kids then might have got a sailing dinghy 12' 6" was most popular, and in their mid thirties probably an 18 ' trailer sailor, and maybe a keeler in their fifties. Even then only a small proportion ever did an ocean passage and even less ocean cruising.
Back then air travel barely existed and was expensive. More recently marriage and families were delayed and time out backpacking taking advantage of cheap airfares was not unusual. The return airfare NZ to Europe is the same or less than twenty years ago in nominal terms. Wages were high and jobs plentiful and I would say there was quite a lot of indulgent spending. In recent years not so much with the average real wage having declined over 10 years.
Maybe youth sailing has declined somewhat as has say trailer sailor racing. There are bigger keelers with larger crews of rail meat. I don't think this gives the same opportunity for low cost hands on experience. However there are still big P class and optimist fleets for those with arents who encourage them so there will always be sailors.
I suspect for many years there will be relative austerity for most so maybe more will have simpler tastes.
 
#32 ·
I think I live in a place where loads of young people come to find cheap used sail boats, move on to them , start fixing them up and sail away. So It seem's to me like more and more young people are doing it. Maybe it doesn't happen else where and I'm seeing the bulk of it. Not the competion club sailing. The living on the sea sailing. Not the weekend warrior sailing, the Salty dog stuff, kid's that work on schooners and cattle-marans. I'm seeing a revival in the cruising world of 20 somethings. When I was a kid in the 70's and 80's, cruising the Bahama's with the Grandparents, there where loads of young budget cruiser's. I couldn't wait to be old enough to do it.
 
#34 ·
im 16 i love sailing i can't wait till i can start cruise just got a bigger boat i know i can't afford to do every thing at one time thats why i just take it slow and soon enought i will be cruising.
I love this kid. He sounds like I did at his age.

I agree with the other posters who said that the number of young people opting for the cruising lifestyle is not on the decline because there were never that many anyway. I grew up at the beach and worked at a number of marinas and only ever knew of one guy who lived on his boat, and that was only for the summer. I think that it seemed like there was a lot of sailboat activity in the 70's and 80's because fiberglass brought prices down to an affordable range. But I will venture to say that there are many more people living aboard today than ever before because of all those used boats that are now real affordable.

As for young people being lazy and unmotivated, I don't believe it, haven't seen it, and don't think that it's true. That statement has been quoted by every older generation about every younger generation since the dawn of time. What's different, is us - we're experiencing adulthood for the first time and have forgotten how irresponsible we once were. I certainly was ;)

As a kid in the 70's, very much like smallboatlover, I would wander the docks and look at the 30', 35', 40' boats and wonder how anyone could ever afford one. I would also marvel that no one ever used them except for weekends. I thought that they were stupid. Then I grew up and realized that they were out working to afford their lifestyle... just like I do today.

Not that much has changed. Only us. The rest is just noise.
 
#35 ·
Wish I could describe the westcoast with the same glowing terms about young starting out gonnabe a cruiser types. All the ingredients seem to still be in place but sucking up to a wealthy boat owner who needs rail meat is the only game showing at the club .Stepping away must be difficult when you've put such effort into student loans, parents' aspirations ,a nearly useless degree in an unsure world. How that is that different from the world I dropped out of.? Well, I didn't have google to answer all my questions and it was uphill both ways to school.
 
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