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  #701  
Old 11-13-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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Originally Posted by hannah2 View Post
Capt Jack, I'm really not trying to be negative here But I'm saying is if you whine about the problems and distractions of life and don't find a solution so you can go cruising then you are not the one % of sailors that do find solutions and go crusing.
So in your opinion its only "cruising" if you live aboard and go out for months/years at a time... and living on a boat and "cruising" for a couple of weeks at a time and long weekends during the season is not cruising then, I see...
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  #702  
Old 11-13-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

Hannah

Wine is 80 cents a bottle? no wonder you live large!! I'd never leave. Here one beer in a pub is $6, you need a $50k income for an apartment and an old car, lesss than that and you have to shack up with 5 room mates or freeze under a bridge, I just spent $800 on a tank of heating oil that will probably last 2 months and I am working to supply all 5 in my family with a roof, a bed, 3 meals and health insurance.

Seriously it is all great to hear about all the youngins who get out there and live the dream. But doesn't it stand to reason that someone somehwere is paying the price of supporting them. Keeping the homestead , or the rest of the family whole, paying airfare back and being the mommy/.daddy bank when things go wrong. Nothing wrong with that either - I wish my wife and I had some support when we started out. Instead it was straight out to the hourly wage farm - and move lively!

Very few, or almost no american kids are going to go cruising that without family or friends/ tribe - someone supporting them. There'd be no place to go home to, no one to call when you got sick ( WITH NO HEALTH INSURANCE!) hungry , your boat broke, or you just needed $$. Think about it. This is all over and above the cost of boat, equipment and daily expenses.
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Last edited by Sal Paradise; 11-13-2013 at 11:01 AM.
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  #703  
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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Originally Posted by hannah2 View Post
In the evenings after five we hangout with other cruisers of all ages and drink some more while most of you just have wet dreams about cruising and forever nothing more. But I know maybe one of you will figure it out and screw all the crap you have brought upon yourself and come see what this life is all about.
One question. How much did that brand new (2013) Boreal 44 set you back? $750,000 or so?

Must be a nice view from up on top of that high horse. I don't think you have any clue what it is like for the vast majority of regular folks who must live within the confines of a paycheck.
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  #704  
Old 11-13-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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Originally Posted by hannah2 View Post
Capt Jack, I'm really not trying to be negative here But I'm saying is if you whine about the problems and distractions of life and don't find a solution so you can go cruising then you are not the one % of sailors that do find solutions and go crusing.
I wasn't saying that I thought you were trying to be negative, per se. it's just that, in that post, you sound like me when i'm talking about the yuppie wanna be bikers with their credit card leathers and 500 mile a year tour bikes. and, I know how I feel about those people. lol. it's kind of the way I feel about people who only learn the very basics of how to sail and then rely on a motor anytime real skills are necessary. disdain, I believe, is the word I am looking for.

you were just stating a fact, as you point out. you were basically saying that only 1% of sailors actually rearrange their lives to go on ocean passages. but your words display disdain. and i'm not narcing on you if you do feel a bit of disdain for those who 'are full of whining excuses' as to why they can't go to sea. the Gods know I have my share of disdain for people I don't feel are truly dedicated to things that I am dedicated to, as I noted above.

I was just saying that I think, when it comes to leaving for months at a time to sail across the ocean, there are some very real situational obstacles. many folks would argue that it would be the height of irresponsibility to just up and quit work and head off to ports unknown without proper financial planning and without having secure knowledge of a job and financial ability when you return. yet, there are those that fling all caution to the wind and set off like vagabonds with no thought of the future and no financial planning.

I have been reading the account of one such individual who did just that in a small plywood sailboat called 'shrimpy'. he set sail with very little money and relied on odd jobs and charity to fund his voyage. it's interesting reading. but, if the large majority of us were to be the type to throw responsibility to the wind, there'd have been no one to give him charity, for him to survive.

I think, when it comes to finding a way to afford such a thing ( I will not discuss the other responsibilities that tend to hold most adults back from just running off ), you can't really say that someone would do it if they really wanted to. that's a bit unrealistic. it's like the people who, when they meet someone that life has taken a royal crap on, love to say, "life is what you make it".

most often, those are people who life has thrown opportunities at or, at least, not crapped on. life isn't what you make it. life is what you do with the things that come your way. if life gives you opportunities and you fail to rise to the moment, then that sentiment is applicable. but, life isn't always so kind. some of us work hard and wrest every inch, we climb, out of life, with the winter gales beating us brutally, only to get tossed back to the bottom, again and again, by things beyond our control. then we get back up and begin the climb again. can you really say to such a person, "life is what you make it"?

note, you can tell my disdain for people who have not had to struggle yet love to say' life is what you make it ' to others who do.

in another thread, I find a $300 cal 27 and am discussing whether I should get it. I did, by the way. it was a opportunity that life gave me. it needs work but it's, ultimately, in good shape. I don't usually get opportunities so I jumped on it.

however, i'm climbing back up the mountain, again, after being kicked down ( something life loves to do to me ). I don't have any money. it took all I had to scrape together the $300. and I had to do that in two installments! the prorated slip fee for this month is $136. I was able to scrape together $37 to put towards that. I need to get insurance and pay the rest of the slip fee by the weekend. my car insurance is due today as is my rent. I managed to line up a few extra side jobs for Thursday and Friday to earn some extra money. but i'm sweating it, pretty hard. will I pull it off? I don't know. I never do know. but I will manage somehow. I knew it would be hard when I took this boat/opportunity, but I also wasn't about to pass up the opportunity.

throughout the years, I have sailed every moment I can. I didn't have a cruiser, just a 9' dinghy and a 20' daysailer. and there have been a lot of years I couldn't use the daysailer for various reasons, so I just had my dinghy ( I really wish there was a better name for such boats. the 5th grader in me snickers every time I talk about 'my dinghy '). and I have sailed that dinghy through winters, in freezing temperatures with layers of long johns on, past ice flows. I have sailed in gusty conditions that had other sailors telling me they thought I was crazy. I keep the dinghy in the back of my truck so I can sail every chance I get, usually several times a week. now, I have bought a cruising boat, that I have to fix up and I really can't even afford the slip fees and insurance for, and am going to add that fight to my list of battles to win.

I love sailing like nothing else, but could I possibly do an ocean voyage, now, or at any time in my past? no. it just isn't and hasn't been possible, from a financial standpoint. if you add the responsibilities that I have no choice but to fulfill, it's been even less possible. have I been whining about it? no. I am just stating facts. facts that are as immovable as a mountain. will I get the chance to sail across the ocean? I sure hope so. it depends on how life goes. I am simply a sailor, sailing across the sea of life. I can not control the winds, only trim my sails and keep her upright and sailing.

what I am trying to say is, not all those who end up not being able to cross oceans are just whiners who lack commitment.

this raises a question about this thread, though. when we say cruising ( for the purpose of this thread ) are we only talking about sailing across the sea to other countries? the title is about the future of the sailing world, not the future of cruising or blue water cruising. I think the discussion has been aimed at cruising and somewhat towards blue water cruising. however, is the future of sailing so narrowly focused?

young people who start sailing dinghies, now, can ultimately work up to cruising and even ocean passages as they get older. is the future of sailing in danger because many young people, in recent generations, aren't just buying boats and sailing around the world?

the baby boomer generation, that did do that in larger numbers, was characterized by young people who shirked the responsibilities of society and just hopped in the old VW bus and hit the road. such people spent a few years just bumming around, getting high...the summer of love. then they all came home to a booming economy. they changed their tie dies out for suits and got in on the ground floor of major financial opportunities and now live in mc mansions.

let's face it, there is no booming economy. there are no ground floors. it's nearly impossible to live, in our modern world, the way that generation of kids did. so, does the fact that most young people aren't doing the hippy thing, today, really endanger sailing, as a lifestyle?

one further question is this: is the future of sailing the same as the future of cruising? not everyone who sails wants to cruise. some are totally happy taking a nice day sail on the weekend. some like to race. some like to just cruise down the bay for the weekend. and, of course, others want to cross oceans. but, aren't all of these people part of the future of sailing, not just those who cruise?

Last edited by captain jack; 11-13-2013 at 12:02 PM.
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  #705  
Old 11-13-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

Hannah sure ruffled some feathers!


IMO cruising does not mean living aboard. And someone living aboard does not necessarily "cruise". Hell, you can take 3 day "cruises" aboard a ship if you want.
I took this thread as asking why aren't more young people sailing. Perhaps I misunderstood.

Anyway, it's safe to say the world can't operate if the entire population took off in a boat to wander around the oceans and drink wine. There would be no balance.
The liveaboard-and-cruise'ers need those who are willing to give up that life they so desire or else wandering around the oceans while drinking wine would be dangerous. Think of all the nameless and faceless people who protect the waters and keep the thugs in line. And those earning a paycheck need the liveaboard-and-cruise'ers to keep a dream alive so they remain sane. We all depend on each other in the grand scheme of things.

You never know the obstacles other people are facing. Some may be working so they can buy their chemo to treat their cancer.
Perhaps they have a family member who is disabled. Is it an excuse or is it a reason for remaining on land to work and provide for that family member?
Or maybe they're trying to provide a lifestyle for someone they love, who they'd move heaven and earth to make that person happy. They'd rather be with that person than alone on a boat in the ocean.
Maybe they had plans to have a family and live life on the oceans, but their child was born with medical conditions requiring frequent medical care.

I think it's good to remember that we all wear different shoes. Some of those shoes were given to them without any other options. Some didn't have a choice to go buy the shoes they wanted.
We often make assumptions about people we're talking to as if they had the same choices we did when it's just not right.
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  #706  
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

well said!
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

I'm in my 20's and am cruising with my buddy from Maine to the carribean on his 1972 30ft islander. Been a great trip so far. Follow us at whalesarecool.com. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks! The economy does suck but it also comes with cheap old boats and the chance to live cheap and free! Don't know why more people don't do this other than not knowing about this option
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Old 11-15-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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Originally Posted by Sal Paradise View Post
Hannah

Wine is 80 cents a bottle? no wonder you live large!! I'd never leave. Here one beer in a pub is $6, you need a $50k income for an apartment and an old car, lesss than that and you have to shack up with 5 room mates or freeze under a bridge, I just spent $800 on a tank of heating oil that will probably last 2 months and I am working to supply all 5 in my family with a roof, a bed, 3 meals and health insurance.

Seriously it is all great to hear about all the youngins who get out there and live the dream. But doesn't it stand to reason that someone somehwere is paying the price of supporting them. Keeping the homestead , or the rest of the family whole, paying airfare back and being the mommy/.daddy bank when things go wrong. Nothing wrong with that either - I wish my wife and I had some support when we started out. Instead it was straight out to the hourly wage farm - and move lively!

Very few, or almost no american kids are going to go cruising that without family or friends/ tribe - someone supporting them. There'd be no place to go home to, no one to call when you got sick ( WITH NO HEALTH INSURANCE!) hungry , your boat broke, or you just needed $$. Think about it. This is all over and above the cost of boat, equipment and daily expenses.
Hi Sal,

I don't think most of the 20 somethings we meet come from wealthy families or have support from their families. They seem to know what they wanted and set out to save, buy a used boat, get it in the best shape they could, took care of all the loose ends and went sailing. These young men and women are very self confident, very polite and friendly all of them are that we have met. Most know they can't sail off into the sunset forever and that they eventually will need to go to work again, maybe a year maybe two. They watch their money, eat simple, drink hard and go to few marinas or restruants. And things on this side of the pond are tough with high unemployment with the 20 somethings. Yes they have good health care, hopefully Americans will have it soon too. Some worked in hi tech, some were auto body mechanics, pay all over the place.

Sounds just the same as when I did it in 1972, save for a couple years, live in a house with 5 other guys, save some more, work an extra job buy a boat fix it up, tie up the loose ends have your folks give a big party for you then just go until the money runs out, come home and find a job even in those days it was hard too. But cruising was all I could think about and I made it work. I'll say it again, if you really really want to you can find away just like whalesarecool did.

I got to love that guy who wanted to know how much my boat cost! What an angry dork. That's like asking a Montana rancher how many acres he owns We are in our 60's now and because sailing is our focus we can afford a really wonderful boat and proud as hell we can, we earned it and we deserve it as far as we are concerned. Life is not a practice run it's the real thing so bud or what ever your name is be happy living that wonderful life you have made for yourself.

The rest of you 20/30 somethings if you really want to go sailing make it happen. It can be done.

Cheers
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Old 11-15-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

yeah I like whalesarecool's blog.

I'm 100% happy for anyone who is out sailing for a year, no ifs ands or buts - do it while you can! Good for you on the retirement boat. I'm 8 years behind you. Stay thirsty, my friend.

family, tribe friends... someone to come home to is always good.
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Old 11-16-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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Originally Posted by captain jack View Post
it's like the people who, when they meet someone that life has taken a royal crap on, love to say, "life is what you make it".

most often, those are people who life has thrown opportunities at or, at least, not crapped on. life isn't what you make it. life is what you do with the things that come your way.
Respectfully...
bullschlitz.
Your life is entirely up to you. Sorry, jack, but it IS what you make it. It is NOT what you do with the things that come your way, it is making your OWN way despite of the things that come at you, and taking advantage where you can, ...and MAKING advantage where you can't.


I'd be happy trade "my life has been harder than yours" creds, but it really doesn't matter- success is a choice, no matter what tax bracket you were born into. So is accepting a lack of success.

Success isn't all about money- it is all about not having to offer excuses or explanations for where you are at, and how you got there.

Yeah, I know, I know, the economy has been hit hard and there are no jobs and the wrong guy is president and yadda yadda yadda... but some folks still got rich, and some folks still made the decision to live life on their own terms...maybe because they focused on looking for the opportunities to succeed, not wasting time and energy finding excuses for NOT succeeding.
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