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  #721  
Old 11-16-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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Originally Posted by bljones View Post
the choice is yours to change your life and do something else. yeah, it's hard, yeah it's tough, but no tougher than not doing anything else by choice, and being forced to do it after a period of soul-sucking unemployment.Look at the numbers and demographics and see obstacles or see opportunity- it is always a choice.

This merely reinforces the idea that its the lack of economic opportunities, and hence the time and years to reinvent yourself that is the EXACT same answer; Its the economy. According to you, a person could be making 150 grand as an architect, which pays you back for all your hard work and investment, take that hard earned money and go cruising - or - you can go through soul sucking unemployment, then "change your life" and open a chain of dollar stores, spend the next 20 years doing that to make the very same money. Those two outcomes are NOT equal.
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  #722  
Old 11-16-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

No, sal, you're missing the point- if one is making $150k as an architect, that is a good choice, which pays you back for all the hard work, etc.... BUT, if the market falls out and one is no longer making $150K as an architect, then one has a choice- go bankrupt and blame the economy and the circumstances, or recognize that it is time to find a new gig, before the inevitable bankruptcy- THAT is the choice.
No matter how bad the economy is, there are always opportunities.... unless you fail to see them.


30 years ago there were thousands of draftsmen, merrily scribbling away at drafting boards. Then, along comes CAD. the draftsman has a choice- learn cad, or blame the rise of the machines for his being out of a job.

Your choices determine your success.
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Last edited by bljones; 11-16-2013 at 12:53 PM.
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  #723  
Old 11-16-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

I'm not missing it. Your point is a tangent. See if you can dig this -the title of this thread isn't

Why are there so few young people bankrupt and blaming others and refusing to reinvent themselves?

Its a valid point, that you should be able reinvent yourself but actually, as I see it -in this discussion - as it relates to reasons why young people are not cruising, your point is synonymous with those who say "the economy" except that you throw in a bit of Ayn Rand happy sauce and some moralizing. As I see it anyway.
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  #724  
Old 11-16-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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Originally Posted by hannah2 View Post
I got to love that guy who wanted to know how much my boat cost! What an angry dork.
hannah2, you can address me directly. No need for the passive aggressive thing. It was a rhetorical question. Anyone can ballpark the cost of a boat. The point is to give some perspective to your posts. You're ridiculing others for not casting off the lines without a penny to spare, but fail to mention that finances are not a concern for you personally. It sounds like you see other young cruisers who are doing it on the cheap, but you are not one. You are a rich white old American with a big fancy boat. That's not a bad thing. Good for you--you really should be proud. But don't pretend to be what you are not, which is what you are doing in this thread.
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Last edited by caberg; 11-16-2013 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 11-16-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

to address recent posts in this thread first.
Looks like there are some people who pretty strongly about their opinions and as we all know everyone had one. really its pretty interesting to see the varying viewpoints but I think we can probably all agree that there is a middle line somewhere which is where reality is. yes there are people who make poor decisions (our hypothetical Archatect who complains about no work instead of deciding to do something else) yes there are people who who have been beat down by things they nave no control over. (the paraplegic who wants to run a marathon) The reality is it takes a combination of opportunity and mental attitude. I could go on a lot more about this, about personality types, about opportunity, about privilage(inherited and created) but that is not what this thread is about

this thread asked about the future of the sailing industry and mentioned not as many young cruisers. I think over all 1st world countries have become a little less adventure oriented and a little more comfort oriented. this is not to say that there are not individuals who dont fit the norm's, there always are. but I think many more people will choose to go sailing for a year or two in between careers, in their 30's or 40's then the 20 somethings of yore who just jumped on board and hoped. People have become a little more paranoid(or informed) of would could really happen out there and take a little time to get prepared, think about what to do when they get back.

or I could just be talking out my A$$.
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Old 11-16-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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Originally Posted by Sal Paradise View Post
I'm not missing it. Your point is a tangent. See if you can dig this -the title of this thread isn't

Why are there so few young people bankrupt and blaming others and refusing to reinvent themselves?

Its a valid point, that you should be able reinvent yourself but actually, as I see it -in this discussion - as it relates to reasons why young people are not cruising, your point is synonymous with those who say "the economy" except that you throw in a bit of Ayn Rand happy sauce and some moralizing. As I see it anyway.
I'm sorry, I though you were addressing my tangent which was addressing another tangent,but you are addressing the thread as a whole, although you quote my tangent. I can dig it.

LOL @ "Ayn Rand happy sauce and some moralizing." I'm not a "fountainhead", I am simply pointing out where I am coming from and why, having been there, done that.

Thanks for pointing out I have a valid point.
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Old 11-16-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

well one good thing about a global down economy is in certgain places you can buy huge deals boatwise...

30, 40, 50 footers for half of what they would cost in a booming economy...

so buy when you can cheap, save up when the boom hits and leave earlier than you plan to...never later! jajaja

peace
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Old 11-16-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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Originally Posted by bljones View Post
No, I'll show you someone who SAW an opportunity, or MADE an opportunity.
Like the one guy in a homeless shelter who actually reads the employment ads in the newspaper, instead of listening to those who say "there are no jobs."
...and then that guy goes to the library and types out a resume, instead of listening to those who say " nobody will give me a job because I haven't got a computer to make a resume."
...and then prowled the donation bin at the Goodwill store before the clothes hit the rack to find the best dress pants and blazer and shirt and tie before they hit the racks, instead of listening to those who said "nobody ever hires homeless people- it's not our fault we look homeless."
... and then used up a roll of quarters at the payphone making phone calls to answer those ads in the paper to get an interview or two, (repeatedly calling back because there was no number to leave for some to return a call,) instead of listening to those who said "we can't get a job- we don't have an address or a phone."
... and then walking across the city to those interviews instead of listening to those who say, "we can't afford to go to a job interview- no money for a bus or a taxi."
... and then keeps doing it, day after day, instead of listening to htose who said "see, told you there were no jobs and nobody hires people like us."
... and then told this story to the business owner at the job interviews he finally gets...
and gets both jobs.

Instead of listening to those who said that it's not possible for a homeless person suffering from mental illness to succeed, and list all sorts of reasons why.


Your failure to understand this concept explains the silliness of your first paragraph in your response, because that was NOT what I was saying at all.

Your limitations, and the limitations of most people, are not physical, but a failure to make your own luck...
maybe because you figure it's no more possible than jumping off the roof and flying to Florida.

By the way, that homeless guy? That was me.

That's MY reality.
dude. no one is saying it's not possible to help yourself. I have been there. I was living outside, sleeping beside my bike. it's all I had. I didn't take government help or charity. I didn't beg for money. I got a job shoveling dog crap at a kennel. I took my baths in the sinks in gas station bathrooms. I washed my clothes, which I kept tied to my sissybar, in the Laundromat. none of my coworkers knew I had no home. I saved my money and got my back bills paid off ( it was a bad fall from grace ). I kept my sleeping bag tied to the sissybar of my bike. by the time I had worked at the kennel for two months I was running it for the owner. I had gotten $3 worth of raises ( from peanuts to not a whole lot ). I lived by the bike through the first part of winter and found out a friend was thinking about leaving home. so, together, we got a place and I wasn't homeless anymore. that was the first fall, years ago.

but I had opportunities. I found a job with a boss that appreciated my worth. the only one I have had. all other bosses just use you up. she voluntarily gave me raises. I also got lucky and a friend was getting ready to leave home, when I was financially prepared to afford a place.

what if I had not had the same opportunities? what if my boss, at that time, had been like all of my other bosses? I wouldn't have gotten those raises. i'd have been doing the extra work but not getting the extra money. that would have changed things. I might not have been ready when my friend was thinking of getting a place. or, what if my friend wasn't thinking of moving out? I wasn't making enough to get a place of my own. and if both opportunities had not been there....

that's what I am saying. people don't make opportunities. they see opportunities that others may not have seen and they take the opportunity. but you don't make opportunities. but people who were down and worked their way back up rarely see that they had opportunities, without which they would not have climbed back up. they usually only see their own efforts to get back up. then they want to go around saying that anybody can do anything they want, with their life, regardless of the circumstances because they truly believe that's what they did.

all I am saying is that you can't honestly say life is what you make it regardless of circumstances. you can narc on that thought all you want but there are people, like the paraplegic or the guy who ended up with no legs because of a drunk driver, that are stuck living the reality of that thought. life happens to people. sometimes you can overcome t and get things back to where you want. other times you are cursed to live with the outcome for the rest of your life. and sometimes you die.

there is a big difference between just giving up, and wallowing in self defeat, and realizing the limitations of your present situation and doing the best you can with what life has dealt you. you are not seeing that difference.

a paraplegic can hope that something ill happen and he will someday be able to walk, but in the meantime he has to live in the reality of his situation. the same thing goes for everyone else, too.

this tangent came about because of the implication that, if someone would like to cruise, but hasn't because their life won't allow that, or hasn't allowed that, yet, then they are just whiners ( with the insinuation that they are thus losers )
that haven't really tried.

for myself, I have sailed the boats I had, the ones I could afford. life was just not supportive of anything else. I dreamed of more but live the reality I had to live. now, I bought a cruiser. it was on the lean dock and I got it for $300. it was all I could do to scrape it up and it is a difficulty trying to pay the slip fees and get insurance and....

it needs a lot of work before I can even sail it. and the whole process is just making a hard struggle harder, but I knew what I one day wanted and I refused to let the opportunity slip through my fingers, when it presented itself.

can I go cruising now? not at all. but I am going to get her fixed up and I will sail her. will I cruise then? sure, but for the foreseeable future, weekend cruising is all I can realistically plan on. there is money and my job to worry about. I can't afford more than weekend cruising and I certainly can't take time off from work. and I can't just quit work and run off to sail to the Caribbean. I have to know I can survive when I return, when I do go long distance cruising.

do I want more than weekends? yes. is that happening now? no. it's not possible. would I love to just up and set sail over the sea for ports unknown? yes, but I live in the really for real world.

everything in it's time. I will do all I can, to achieve what i'd like, but I have to take care of what I need, in the present.

someday, will I make a blue water passage? hopefully. I will if it's my wyrd to do so. but am I a whiner, who just isn't trying, because I haven't done so, yet, or because I am not doing so, now? of course not. and that was the point, way back when this little side discussion began. not all people has the ability to go sailing the sea and they aren't losers or whiners because of it.

why do you think that there was a lot of outraged response, other than mine, to Hannas' original post?

Last edited by captain jack; 11-16-2013 at 06:52 PM.
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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Originally Posted by casioqv View Post

There's a growing movement of young people into frugality and simple living that find by cutting their expenses, they can retire wealthy at a young age with a very modest income. This article gives an example of how this works:
The Shockingly Simple Math Behind Early Retirement by Mr. Money Mustache
yeah. that's what I was talking about in an earlier post, before this side discussion began. there are youtube videos about that
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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Originally Posted by Unkle Toad View Post
to address recent posts in this thread first.
Looks like there are some people who pretty strongly about their opinions and as we all know everyone had one. really its pretty interesting to see the varying viewpoints but I think we can probably all agree that there is a middle line somewhere which is where reality is. yes there are people who make poor decisions (our hypothetical Archatect who complains about no work instead of deciding to do something else) yes there are people who who have been beat down by things they nave no control over. (the paraplegic who wants to run a marathon) The reality is it takes a combination of opportunity and mental attitude. I could go on a lot more about this, about personality types, about opportunity, about privilage(inherited and created) but that is not what this thread is about.
great post. that is exactly what I have been trying to say. it takes a combination of opportunity and attitude. the right attitude, alone, isn't enough.

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Originally Posted by Unkle Toad View Post
this thread asked about the future of the sailing industry and mentioned not as many young cruisers. I think over all 1st world countries have become a little less adventure oriented and a little more comfort oriented. this is not to say that there are not individuals who dont fit the norm's, there always are. but I think many more people will choose to go sailing for a year or two in between careers, in their 30's or 40's then the 20 somethings of yore who just jumped on board and hoped. People have become a little more paranoid(or informed) of would could really happen out there and take a little time to get prepared, think about what to do when they get back.

or I could just be talking out my A$$.
personally, I think you are spot on.
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