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post #741 of 909 Old 11-17-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

TDW will buy everyone a round if none of you come to blows.

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post #742 of 909 Old 11-17-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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Originally Posted by bljones View Post
Captain Jack, re-read this post that you have written.
Then go and re-read all of the posts from all of the people who told you you wouldn't be able to find a worthwhile boat for next to no money, etc., etc.,
That it wasn't "realistic."
Note the similarities.

They were wrong, weren't they?

I'm not looking to be "right," I wasn't looking for a debate. I was simply pointing out a different point of view.

My reality is working for me just fine. I figured I would share what worked for me. If it doesn't work for you, that is cool. Your life is yours.
you know, i think there is a point of misunderstanding between us. i agree, basically, with your message; that you have to work to make your life what you want it to be and amazing things are possible if you are willing to strive. i have lived my life by that idea.

but i think that there has to be some measure of reality, too. not all ends are achievable for any given starting place. and, many ends that seem impossible may be achievable, but it's possibly going to take a lot more time and effort than those standing on the outside looking in might realize.

the original post that started this side discussion, into which you entered, implied that, if anyone who wanted to go blue water cruising hadn't been able to do that, because of the realities of life, it was just that they were whiney losers that really didn't want it bad enough. i wasn't the only person to take exception to that, just, perhaps, the most verbose.

my point to that poster, the point that started all this off, was simply that you can't make that judgement. that, depending on the obstacles, the goal of blue water cruising might be impossible for some and that many, who wish to do so but haven't yet, are still working towards that goal. they still might never reach it, due the the course of life.

you can't know what is going to come your way. many people are laid low by unforseen circumstances. i mean it figuratively and litterally when i say 'laid low'.

but you can't judge those people harshly. some of us climb out of really deep pits, sometimes more than once, and overcome obstacles that many would see as impossible. many others fight hard and fall on the field of battle. you get my drift?

i agree with you. if you want something, you need to set that as your goal and do all you can to work towards it. impossible things can be possible. but, at the same time, everyone needs to be aware that they may not make it. things happen, in life. you may train hard in your martial art, arm yourself well, and step forth on the field of honor with might and vigor, only to be slain by an untrained peasant with a lucky blow. that's life. i am not saying you should not strive for the things you really want. you should. it's the striving that makes us human. it shapes our characters and teaches us. it makes us worthy. to never strive is to never be anything...to never become.

i get the impression that you think i am saying it is impossible so you shouldn't try. i'm not saying that at all. i have done a lot of 'impossible' things, in my life. i'd be the very last person to say something like that.

however, no one is right when they look at another person and deem his or her reasons for not achieving their dreams to be bogus. you can't judge another person like that. you don't know where they have been or what they may have faced.

i get upset about it because, if you look at the material evidence, i have done nothing in all my life of hard struggling.

i own no house. i rent my mom's basement. i pay more than i should for it. i could rent cheeper, where i am keeping this cal27. a lot cheaper. plus, my mom is....i hate to say it but she's a bit greedy. she overcharges me, even if i wasn't family and wasn't taking care of her and constantly doing things for her ( like rebuilding her front porch just recently ). i could move but then there would be no one to take care of my mother. she leans heavily on me. being completely honest, she has also been a very harmful element throughout my life. but she is my mother. it is the duty of a child to care for their parents. so, i do. it started out as a temporary stop over during the last crash my life had and i, now, stay because my mom needs me. she makes me crazy. it costs me too much in rent. i have to have storage for much of my belongings due to space, which also costs me. but i can not abandon her, either.

i drive a beat up pick up that was going to be junked from the work site, where i was the assisstant to the superintendent ( highly underpaid for what i was doing but glad, in this economy, just to have a job that was secure ). they saw an opportunity to get a charity deduction, instead of a loss, and have a back up work truck for the site. i only had my chopper, at the time. i was climbing out of a huge financial cave-in. they offered me the truck, for free, with the stipulation that, should the need arise, i would use the truck as the site truck. there was a lot of paperwork so they could get their charitable deduction. so, i did what i am getting ready to do with this boat, for that truck. i put a lot of hours into it, and parts money, and i got it going.

i am, generally, broke and living hand to mouth, as it were. my shoes are worn out. i never have money to do anything. after working my butt off since i was 13, and i am now 43, i am no better off than when i was just leaving home, at 18. worse, actually. now, i am haunted by the time. at this stage of life i am 'supposed' to have a house, a nice car, a wife and 2.5 children, a growing retirement fund. i have none of these. i have a number of people depending on me to save their bacon, on a regular basis, and i have a nice chopper that i built. and i am running out of time.

oh, and i now have 3 old boats. only the holiday20 is worth anything, at this point. the dinghy is worth something to me, personally, but it has no monetary value. and the 'new' boat needs a lot of work. but, in a effort to be honest, i have to list the boats as something i have to show for my efforts.

you could look at my life and judge me to be one of these losers that just didn't try hard enough. but then, unlike my friends who know me, you wouldn't really have any idea what i have achieved. while struggling to pull my butt out of the hole, i have always given to others. i have been a priest, to many. i have taught college kids medieval combat. i have put my time and effort to helping countless orther people. i built that chopper on a 4X4 table in a stone driveway while i was living in an unheated garage. i have worked my way to the most depended on and valuable employee over and over again; constantly having to prove my worth. i have won the respect and admiration of those that have known me, professionally and personally , despite my, often terrible, financial situation. and i have overcome outrageous hurdles to get to the nowhere i have gotten to. life keeps kicking me in the face and i keep getting back up and saying F you to life and starting back up again. and along the way, i never forget to strive and work for higher purpose; to do what i can to advance my fellow man.

one of my oldest friends has said that if i were to publish a book of my life, i'd have to catagorize it as fiction because no one would believe it. he's right. the stories i could tell...

and, through it all, i am still an optimistic person. i smile and joke around constantly. as the Havamal says," glad and wholesome should the hero be, until his dying day."

and, yeah, over the years, i have had a lot of people that have had lives that went their way, at every step, throw the words " life is what you make it" at me. people who know nothing about what i have faced and overcome. people who did not know what it means to really struggle. who don't know what it is like to have all of your achievements ripped from you time and again, through no fault or doing of your own. i may not have the material things that they have but my actual achievements far surpass anything those people have ever done, in their lives. not all achievements are readily visible to a passing glance.

but i had obviously not tried hard enough because life is what you make it and if you really want something you will get it, if you work hard enough. i must have liked to live in such poverty and didn't really want to have more in my life.

so, yeah, i have come to hate that phrase as it is usually wielded by those with their heads up their butts; judgemental jerks that wish to dengrade others to make themselves seem better.

and that is what riled me up about that one poster's attitude towards people who hadn't been able to go blue water cruising, because of their life's path. no one has the right to judge the achievements of another. you don't know the path they have walked.

you just entered the conversation because you thought my statement was defeatist. but it was nothing of the sort. it was just an attempt at adding a bit of reality...perspective, to the discussion.

i thought long and hard before i posted all of this and i deleted much of what i wrote, keeping much to myself. it's my personal business and i am not used to broadcasting it around. however, since you seem to be someone who, like myself, has struggled hard to overcome the odds, i wanted you to understand where i am coming from and what i am trying to actually say. hopefully, i have achieved that end.

Last edited by captain jack; 11-17-2013 at 01:30 PM. Reason: punctuation
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post #743 of 909 Old 11-17-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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TDW will buy everyone a round if none of you come to blows.
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post #744 of 909 Old 11-17-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

Wow, Jack, those are some powerful and righteous words. For me the whole thread was worth it just to read that. You have a gift for writing, and as your oldest friend says - a gift for story telling too. I wish you peace in your life, and don''t measure it by house mortgages years or job status titles. Its in the positive things you do and how they affect others. FWIW I wish for someone like you on every one of my building projects.
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post #745 of 909 Old 11-17-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

thanks. I appreciate that. it's nice to know my words have had value to you.
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post #746 of 909 Old 11-17-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??
Here is a bit of my take on this topic.

I would love to go out cruising now. I'm 35 and my boat is paid for. Some more work needed for long distance cruising, but, I can't go anywhere. I work in the military and can't get released yet.

I think the idea that hard work now and enjoy yourself later is what is expected by society as a whole. Otherwise, you're not considered to be a major contributor to the society and economy.

so, many people get trapped in the work force, paying off student debts and doing what is expected of them and doing what is "normal" according to friends and family.

For me, my boat is not very big but I feel I could live on it easily enough. I like to keep things simple. My fiancee and I were talking recently about all the things we have to do just to get by in life with work, home, sitting in traffic, waking up early etc. She said how much she would like to live more simply like she did when she was younger. Yet, according to her, living on a boat for any amount of time is not an option.

Still, there is that sense of doing what is expected and doing what is "normal" and generally accepted. Many people, I think like to keep things well within their comfort zone.

Because many people are raised to work hard now and have fun when you're older, the sense of adventure doesn't get passed down to their children and the cycle continues. If I didn't get exposed to sailing when I was in high school, I probably would not have given it much thought myself.

Laziness probably has a part in it too. As mentioned before, people are used to instant gratification. While hard work at ones employment may be expected maybe not so much in other aspects of life.

Everyone's goals are different in what they want out of life. Personally, I think it's important to get the most out of life sooner as our lives could end at any moment. Getting the younger generations exposed to sailing could help increase participation.

If you want to see more younger folks out on the water, then go be a mentor and teach your kids, grandkids or anyone else who can stand you long enough
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post #747 of 909 Old 11-17-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

reading back over it, I see there are too many typos, though. lol. aol likes to boot me right after I have taken a lot of time writing something, causing me to lose it all, so I tend to rush posting more than I should...before I have had enough proof reading time.
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post #748 of 909 Old 11-17-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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Originally Posted by Rhapsody-NS27 View Post
Here is a bit of my take on this topic.

I would love to go out cruising now. I'm 35 and my boat is paid for. Some more work needed for long distance cruising, but, I can't go anywhere. I work in the military and can't get released yet.

I think the idea that hard work now and enjoy yourself later is what is expected by society as a whole. Otherwise, you're not considered to be a major contributor to the society and economy.

so, many people get trapped in the work force, paying off student debts and doing what is expected of them and doing what is "normal" according to friends and family.

For me, my boat is not very big but I feel I could live on it easily enough. I like to keep things simple. My fiancee and I were talking recently about all the things we have to do just to get by in life with work, home, sitting in traffic, waking up early etc. She said how much she would like to live more simply like she did when she was younger. Yet, according to her, living on a boat for any amount of time is not an option.

Still, there is that sense of doing what is expected and doing what is "normal" and generally accepted. Many people, I think like to keep things well within their comfort zone.

Because many people are raised to work hard now and have fun when you're older, the sense of adventure doesn't get passed down to their children and the cycle continues. If I didn't get exposed to sailing when I was in high school, I probably would not have given it much thought myself.

Laziness probably has a part in it too. As mentioned before, people are used to instant gratification. While hard work at ones employment may be expected maybe not so much in other aspects of life.

Everyone's goals are different in what they want out of life. Personally, I think it's important to get the most out of life sooner as our lives could end at any moment. Getting the younger generations exposed to sailing could help increase participation.

If you want to see more younger folks out on the water, then go be a mentor and teach your kids, grandkids or anyone else who can stand you long enough
excellent post.
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post #749 of 909 Old 11-17-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

Lots of good perspectives here whether it's from bljones, hanna2, or captain jack.

Just a question, were there really a lot more baby boomers cruising in their 20's than the 20 year olds of today? Or is that just an assumption we have that would seem to make sense?

To me there is little doubt that the 20 year olds of today on average are starting out in more precarious financial circumstances than I did. I'm not sure what the options are for a kid in their 20s who wants to cruise but has to deal with substantial college debt. Can they get a boat and put off loan payments some how?

At the same time I think it's true that if you're a kid that's managed to get your way through college, you could probably find a way to raise the money to spend a year cruising if you wanted it bad enough. But it might mean making sacrifices and taking risks that earlier generations didn't have to, … at least not to the same extent.

We have talked about some of the disadvantages the kids of today might have, but there are advantages too, - namely technology. And I'm not just talking about the technology involved sailing itself. The Internet is an amazing resource that not only can help you find a boat, but put you in touch with plenty of people who have done what you are setting out to do. A lot of the logistics, planning, and outfitting can be done from the comfort of your home.

Oh and good luck to you Captain Jack. I have no doubt that cruising is in your future if that's a path you choose to take. And if not, you'll be at peace with whatever you end up doing. Call me an optimist, but I think at some point a person with your work ethic, smarts, and sense of decency will be rewarded. I think in one of your posts you mentioned that some people seem to lead charmed lives. I've observed the same thing. I've also seen people get dragged down by getting entangled with people who seem to live constantly under a dark cloud. Avoid the latter if you can.

Last edited by unimacs; 11-17-2013 at 02:27 PM.
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post #750 of 909 Old 11-17-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

First time I cruised in S. Pacific I was 21 that's in 1972 or so. 50 % were young and fifty percent were old. It seems to be about the same today, nothing has really changed. At 21 I lived on a budget and today I live on almost the same budget % wise while cruising. Unlike mr dork that thinks if you own a good boat your rich, most of us are living in a pretty tight budget. Most of us busted our butt to get where we were and that went for the 1970's when baby boomers were in their 20's, nothing has changed. work hard, save, get rid of the man and buy a boat and go sailing.
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