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  #861  
Old 11-26-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Guess I didn't put it well. I don't think it's the kids. I do think it's the environment they live in. Remember bringing my youngest daughter to hunting camp. No flush toilet, Heat only from wood stove. She got there are cried. Next day after falling off the snowmobile when I went to pick her up and dust her off. She said "Best day ever".
Sorry, I was being flippant - I actually agree. Kids will adapt to just about anything, given half a chance. But if we raise them to look at people doing things rather than doing things for themselves, well... In my misspent youth, I took a bunch of scouts canoeing. One of them complained that it was hard work (it was), blisters hurt (they do) and - "that it took much longer than on television". I didn't have a good response to that last one.
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  #862  
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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Originally Posted by Spiny Norman View Post
Sorry, I was being flippant - I actually agree. Kids will adapt to just about anything, given half a chance. But if we raise them to look at people doing things rather than doing things for themselves, well... In my misspent youth, I took a bunch of scouts canoeing. One of them complained that it was hard work (it was), blisters hurt (they do) and - "that it took much longer than on television". I didn't have a good response to that last one.


My son was in scouts and there's an annual week long camp that the boys love because they have an opportunity to do some very cool things: sleep in tree houses, spend the night on two competing "Huck Finn" rafts on the lake, etc. The camp boasts that their fleet of Sunfish is the largest in the world. I have no idea if that's true or not but the boats could definitely use some work.

Anyway, that camp is a lot of work and the mistake the leadership often makes is downplaying that while telling the new scouts how great it's going to be. They have classes, they make their own meals, they walk several miles a day, and of course, it might rain for 5 days. They probably lose quite a few boys after that first weeklong camp that maybe would have stuck around if they had been better prepared for what camp was really going to be like.

It's all about setting expectations. Maybe they're afraid none of the new kids would go if they really knew. Anyway, I was surprised at how much my son enjoyed it. There wasn't that much else he liked about scouts but he lived for that camp.

Last edited by unimacs; 11-26-2013 at 05:04 PM.
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  #863  
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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That sounds - awesome.
I still think the keelboat options are fairly expensive. $500 to take out a 23 footer with a cubby for three 4 hour blocks is the cheapest and doesn't seem all that attractive.

The bigger boats are about $700 for 3 rentals or well over $1,000 for six. At those prices ownership starts get more attractive but slips or moorings on those larger lakes are much more expensive.
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  #864  
Old 11-26-2013
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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I still think the keelboat options are fairly expensive. $500 to take out a 23 footer with a cubby for three 4 hour blocks is the cheapest and doesn't seem all that attractive.

The bigger boats are about $700 for 3 rentals or well over $1,000 for six. At those prices ownership starts get more attractive but slips or moorings on those larger lakes are much more expensive.
I was thinking the same thing!

3000! for a 20 to 27 footer per year? and then I thought unless I got an awesome deal on such a boat like for $500

then 200 a month for a slip
then 200 for expenses per month for the boat and any fixes to get her in sailing conditions and you are easily over the $3000

for a new sailor this is exactly what you want...you want to sail and not bother with the stuff that makes it a chore

so I applaud this system even if at first it looks expensive

Unless you are the complete DIY guy or gal and fixing stuff pleases you as does learn while you fix...

options is what its all about.

I will say this however when I was in san francisco I could not find any place that would simply rent out a small keelboat for any amount of money unless you had to take long tests, pay a huge inscription fee...then be on a waiting list etc...etc...and I had a captains license! they still wanted all this other info and stuff...

in the end I bought a folkboat and had it in berkeley and bam sailing whenever I wanted no hassle...

just sayin
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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I still think the keelboat options are fairly expensive. $500 to take out a 23 footer with a cubby for three 4 hour blocks is the cheapest and doesn't seem all that attractive.

The bigger boats are about $700 for 3 rentals or well over $1,000 for six. At those prices ownership starts get more attractive but slips or moorings on those larger lakes are much more expensive.
That is a tad on the pricy side, admittedly. But for someone starting out, it may be worthwhile for a year or two.
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  #866  
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

i think kids can adapt to a life without all the passive tech. my last GF had two little girls. they had always had cable TV. i got rid of cable years before. it was a waste of money. i never watch TV. there is too much life to live and useful activities to do. when they first moved in with me they couldn't stand the lack of cable. but, before long, we had family activities instead ofd separate TV time. if we dsid watch the tube, it was a rental movie we all watched together. and lifewas happier than it had been when there was cable.
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

one point about boat ownership and those who can't afford to own. on most of the lakes around here you can rent canoes, kayaks, row boats, and some even rent john boats with outboards. but i can't think of any place that will rent you a small sailboat. so, you don't have to own a boat to use one of the other types of boat but you pretty much do have to own one to sail.
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

I don't think kids need to do "without the passive tech", they simply need to balance it with other activity. Parents also need to manage their time on it so that it doesn't become all they do.

For context - I am the IT guy for work, for the extended family, and (unofficially) for the local marine rescue. As I make (most of) my bread & butter coding for Apple & Android devices, there are a tonne of them lying around for the kids to use. They also have three consoles, two MacBook laptops, and a Windows PC for them to use. They love to play games on them but they are still out on the water sailing of a Sunday. I attribute this to two things:
1. "Electronics time" is limited to an hour per day maximum. No exceptions.
2. We all participate in the same activities. I play video games with them, they sail on the same day I do, and we all take turns picking a family destination (beach, park, playground, etc) or indoor activity (board game, card game, storytelling, etc). If you don't show them you consider their activities worth joining in - why should they consider yours worthwhile?

That said, having access to a boat of your own does make it far more accessible. That's not going to be a kid purchase or request at xmas - that's something the parents have to invest in... which leads to (in general) only parents who sail having kids who sail.
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

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Originally Posted by BentSailor View Post
I don't think kids need to do "without the passive tech", they simply need to balance it with other activity. Parents also need to manage their time on it so that it doesn't become all they do.

For context - I am the IT guy for work, for the extended family, and (unofficially) for the local marine rescue. As I make (most of) my bread & butter coding for Apple & Android devices, there are a tonne of them lying around for the kids to use. They also have three consoles, two MacBook laptops, and a Windows PC for them to use. They love to play games on them but they are still out on the water sailing of a Sunday. I attribute this to two things:
1. "Electronics time" is limited to an hour per day maximum. No exceptions.
2. We all participate in the same activities. I play video games with them, they sail on the same day I do, and we all take turns picking a family destination (beach, park, playground, etc) or indoor activity (board game, card game, storytelling, etc). If you don't show them you consider their activities worth joining in - why should they consider yours worthwhile?

That said, having access to a boat of your own does make it far more accessible. That's not going to be a kid purchase or request at xmas - that's something the parents have to invest in... which leads to (in general) only parents who sail having kids who sail.
that's exactly what i was saying, with a similar example. you just said it in a different way. your kids are doing without all the passive tech. not that they live in a cave but that their access to it is extremely regulated and limited.
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  #870  
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Re: The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

I suppose we've got different perspectives on what we call "doing without" or "extremely regulated/limited".

When I think of "doing without", it means coping with the absence of something. I "did without" video games as a young child because I simply didn't have a computer / console on which to play them. I, at times, "did without" meals during university because I could only afford to feed two people, so I would find an excuse not to eat so my wife & son could. And so on. That's how I understood the term - so that's likely where my disagreement stems from.

My kids, on the other hand, are getting access video games every day (aside from when they're grounded). It's just that they are not allowed to play them all the time in much the same way as not every meal of theirs has chocolate in it. I also wouldn't classify limiting one (of many possible) sedentary activities to one hour a day "extremely" regulated. Again, possibly a minor difference in how we interpret the phrase "extremely"
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