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The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

119K views 908 replies 179 participants last post by  captain jack 
#1 ·
I'm curious on opinions on this one. When Baby boomers were in their 20's there were lots of them in small capable sailboats (some they made themselves) cruising across oceans; but now-a-days the majority of twenty-year olds appear to be utterly useless. I just don't get it, and I'm in my twenties, and cruising.


I'm also curious as to where people think the future of the sailing industry is going if there are so few young people involved?

Any thoughts?
 
#70 · (Edited)
The overarching reason is that sailing is completely absent from our cultural radar.

Why were there more baby boomers out in their 20s? Because they grew up in an era where sailing was celebrated as an exciting and adventurous activity. Think about how the global races all started in the late 60s and early 70s: The Golden Globe Race, The Whitbread, The Route Du Rhum. Think of Robin Lee Graham's voyage and how it captivated a generation of young sailors.

Sailing was a part of the whole counterculture of the time. Cruising was (and probably still is) the last bastion of freedom and self-reliance in a very paranoid and frightened world.

Why does my generation not care about sailing? Probably for the same reason we don't care about politics and are generally ignorant of the world at large.

Are there other factors? Sure, there are plenty: We don't have the likes of Pearson marketing sailing as a post-war, middle-class aspiration, those who might be sailors are into "extreme sports" instead, student loans, computers, the internet, the yacht clubbing 80's, the death of American boat builders in the 90's...the list goes on.

But I do think if we weren't so apathetic and had just a small spark of our parent's baby boom ire, we would see the incredible potential of owning a sailboat.
 
#78 ·
The overarching reason is that sailing is completely absent from our cultural radar.

Why were there more baby boomers out in their 20s? Because they grew up in an era where sailing was celebrated as an exciting and adventurous activity. Think about how the global races all started in the late 60s and early 70s: The Golden Globe Race, The Whitbread, The Route Du Rhum. Think of Robin Lee Graham's voyage and how it captivated a generation of young sailors.

Sailing was a part of the whole counterculture of the time. Cruising was (and probably still is) the last bastion of freedom and self-reliance in a very paranoid and frightened world.

Why does my generation not care about sailing? Probably for the same reason we don't care about politics and are generally ignorant of the world at large.

Are there other factors? Sure, there are plenty: We don't have the likes of Pearson marketing sailing as a post-war, middle-class aspiration, those who might be sailors are into "extreme sports" instead, student loans, computers, the internet, the yacht clubbing 80's, the death of American boat builders in the 90's...the list goes on.

But I do think if we weren't so apathetic and had just a small spark of our parent's baby boom ire, we would see the incredible potential of owning a sailboat.
The not knowing is a big part of it too. I'll say it again, if I'd known how easy it was to get time on other people's boats and sail I probably wouldn't have even bought one to start off, but I didn't see any other way, and I wanted to live aboard. Every marina I've passed was gated, and nobody there. How was I supposed to find those people to learn about sailing and boats from. Now that I'm "in" so to speak by having my own boat, I have more invitations to come and sail than I could take people up on, since I am so busy working to repair my boat, and to earn enough to pay for her.

Very frustrating, to think that for the past 4 years I could have been happily learning to sail and meeting all these great people, but just couldn't find my way in.
That's a big part of why sailing is dying out I'm sure. The first book I remember ever reading without pictures was Great Adventures in Small Boats, basically a large collection of summarized stories from singlehanders and small boats. My dad and I never saw eye to eye on it, he wanted me to race(lasers etc) I wanted to explore. I looked at boats for sale of the years, but they were always so far out of reach for me.

So lack of knowledge, or any way to get the knowledge and financial are the big reasons, my concept of the financial end kept me from ever looking, the lack of ability to learn from others kept me from ever learning and there just wasn't any way I could see to get involved with it.

Mixed blessing. Too many boats and it would all be crowded, just like everywhere else.

Brent: I bet the Haida was a bit newer than, a 26 of similar quality and age as they were then is a quite a few dollars more than 9000$ today.

Agree about the rest though, if I'd had better exposure to it, and known I didn't need to spend the kind of money most people spend to get into it, I would certainly have got into it sooner. I thought it was only for the rich(still do in a lot of ways). As far as supporting the industry I'll do that as soon the industry makes something to support me(read: useful, durable and inexpensive parts and hardware).
 
#72 ·
Well

We sail when want which on a good week would be three times which more than fulfills my need to sail



As we have the misfortune of liking to hike and do other stuff and i feel like i did something right because at 24 and 27 they still find time to spend with ME and bring friends



Grace thinks its cool



And with the distance racing ;)
 
#73 ·
As we have the misfortune of liking to hike and do other stuff and i feel like i did something right because at 24 and 27 they still find time to spend with ME and bring friends
Fantastic! :D

I have a niece a 3 nephews who are just about old enough to start doing stuff with, can't wait to take them out for a sail on Uncle David's boat!
 
#74 ·
In reference to Aaron's minimalist comment above: IMO one of the best things about spending extended time on any sailboat is that it teaches you to be a minimalist, to conserve, and be wise in how you plan and use things. There just is no other choice. These type lessons are good for anyone and, to me, one of the most enjoyable aspects of sailing. When you try to explain the thrift involved in sailing, most landlubbers, especially young folks, just give you that vacant look that indicates they think you are either crazy or probably come from another planet....What do you mean, I can't take a 1/2 hr. shower twice a day??! Many wasteful habits would be cured if everyone had to spend a couple of months sailing.
 
#85 ·
I would also think that living aboard would prevent you from buying things that you don't really need.

In preparation for my little liveaboard, I went through all of my belongings and asked myself what do I really NEED (& what was given as gifts as has sentimental value) and I sold everything else on eBay!
 
#75 · (Edited)
When I first came to the BC coast, at age 18, wages were around $2 an hour and a Haida 26 cost around $9K. Now I have seen them for sale for around $3500 and wages are much higher, $30 an hour for me.Even minimum wages are over six times what they were back then, while boats are being practicaly given away. Back then it cost a years wages for a radar, now it costs a week and a halfs wages. It cost more hours wages for a depth sounder back then than it costs for a radar today. With boats being given away, why are kids homeless? I still remember harassment of liveaboards, and the need to sneak aboard ones boat being quite common back then. Back then we dreamt of living aboard our own boats, and made great sacrifices to get there. I carried only bus tokens and only whatever money I needed to get what I went shopping for , no more. I remember working on my first boat at age 20, and having a friend come visit. He said "You are going to have a terrible summer." I said "Yes, but worth it for the endless summer comming. " I had no interest in the dating or party scene, nor booze nor drugs, nor owning a car , expensive clothes etc etc. As a result, I was on my way to New Zealand in my own boat at age 23. I wouldn't trade the choices I made back then, for all the drunken parties, cars , girlfriends, cars , etc, my friends had. The lives they ended up living were a complete, unimaginitive bore, compared to what I have done. I went to a few of those parties in New Zealand . Boy I sure wasn't missing much!
A big part of the problem is those who spread the myth that one should only buy new equipment at ship swindlers grossly inflated prices, and that only spending lots of money will get one into the cruising life. They spread the myth that if you try cruising without supporting the industry, you are somehow morally irresponsible. If the industry wants welfare, they should apply at the welfare office .When I try to tell people of affordable alternatives, like used gear and salvaged gear ,or how to build your own, extremely cowardly moderators on other sites, close the debate, before I get a chance to respond to their myths, and disinformation. Their goal seems to be to keep the cruising alternative reserved for the rich advocates of the predominant religion of our time, squanderism ( consumerism). Their attitude towards ones moral obligation to support squanderism is downright, religious extremist
(consumerism's Taliban)
Sadly, too many of our youth get suckered into their myth that, if you dont have a huge amount of money ,you can forget about the cruising lifestyle. The elitist myth makers cost them their dreams, and leave them eventually living the squanderism lifestyle, which, in the long run, will drastically increase their environmental foot print, as ones environmental foot print is directly measureable by how much money one goes thru.
When youth connect to the fact that they have been suckered into the myth that only the rich can cruise, and that the consumer treadmill is not the only lifestyle option available to them, its like a light going on, and their enthusiasm suddenly springs to life. Then their resourcefullness in getting into the cruising lifestyle is a wonderful thing to observe ( to the chagrin of those who had planned to exploit them for the rest of their lives).
I remember once , while building a boat in Duncan, a friend sticking his head over the rail and saying. "You didn't want to go to university Brent , so work."
I replied "If I had gone to university and got a degree, I'd be driving taxi right now."
He said "Yes, you are probably right. "
 
#86 ·
I remember working on my first boat at age 20, and having a friend come visit. He said "You are going to have a terrible summer." I said "Yes, but worth it for the endless summer comming. " I had no interest in the dating or party scene, nor booze nor drugs, nor owning a car , expensive clothes etc etc. As a result, I was on my way to New Zealand in my own boat at age 23.
That Sir is inspirational!

A big part of the problem is those who spread the myth that one should only buy new equipment at ship swindlers grossly inflated prices, and that only spending lots of money will get one into the cruising life.
When youth connect to the fact that they have been suckered into the myth that only the rich can cruise, and that the consumer treadmill is not the only lifestyle option available to them, its like a light going on, and their enthusiasm suddenly springs to life. Then their resourcefullness in getting into the cruising lifestyle is a wonderful thing to observe ( to the chagrin of those who had planned to exploit them for the rest of their lives).
Thats what I bought into and I lived (at 18) right next to a river where I could have kept a yacht and it was only 5miles from the sea!!! But as you have said, once one becomes enlightened...
 
#76 ·
Baby boomers didn't have a "virtual" world. When the only way to experience life is IRL,if you are adventurous you live the hell out of it IRL.

Adventure, however is a dying commodity in this age of fear. The Post-X generations have been coddled and protected and helicoptered and helmeted and padded and guarded to the point where any adventure is only sustainable in small easily managed and well insured doses.

Nobody would even think about letting their kid hitch hike on their own across north america today, but it was common a generation ago.


Personally, I blame peanut allergies. When i was a kid, nobody had peanut allergies. Now maybe that means all those kids died when they got their first whiff of Jif, I don't know, but somewhere along the way some parent convinced schools that peanut allergies were deadly serious, and for the sake of their precious snowflake, every other kid could no longer bring a peanut butter sammich to school. Then, in retaliation for that snowflake getting peanut products banned from school, some kid hit him with a snowball, then snowballs were banned. It's been downhill into a well-padded adequately supervised perfectly safe peanut and bully free pool ever since...
and now that generation wants everything to be safe and programmed and planned.
 
#77 · (Edited)
I just knew those damn peanuts were to blame for all of this :)

I think it is natural, understandeable human behavior to want to look after your kids. The problem being that as a society we now are so good at it, so resourced and equipped to protect them from the harms of the world that they end up not ever understanding or experiencing the actual world themselves.

Ironically the greatest danger facing the next generation is diabetes and heat disease, issues largely caused not by being adventurous but by sitting in a house and eating oneself silly.
 
#79 ·
That's why I wrote my book , to get simpler more affordable ways out, beyond the censorship of some forum moderators, who put the interests of the ship swindlers( their advertisers) first, ahead of those of low income cruisers. That is why my input gets censored.
 
#80 ·
That's why I wrote my book , to get simpler more affordable ways out, beyond the censorship of some forum moderators, who put the interests of the ship swindlers( their advertisers) first...
Absolutely. After all they PAY to support the site.
I'd censor your cheapskate ass too. Buy an ad.
 
#84 ·
Sillier items like BFS bumper stickers??? :) :)Joking.
Umm For sure!!!

I also welcome his input here, as a yacht designer and experienced cruiser I am happy for his posts, and for him to mention his book as often as he likes in them. If he starts posting links to Amazon then that might be a bit much, but otherwise so what?
 
#87 ·
If you're going to own a sailboat, especially if you are younger and cash-strapped (your boat will assure you are cash-strapped later:) you should invest in being able to do the things that are necessary. Invest in a welder. Invest in some good hand tools and invest in learning how to use them. One of the things that makes me nervous about younger folks is that they depend too much on groups. They have been brought up and indoctrinated in the age of touchy-feely "groupness." "Friending" is a new verb that hints at this tendency. They are consequently manipulated easily as a group. I believe there were many more independent thinking people 40 years ago in the baby boom generation. There were a lot more old boats resurrected by 18 year-olds in the 60s. There seemed to be more kids interested in individual things that did not require a group of "friends." Also, working with one's hands to get proficient at something more than really fast texting (another new verb) was more in vogue.
 
#97 ·
Agree about the first part mostly. Maybe not the welder, not a lot that can be welded on an FG boat, especially not with a consumer grade welder from Canadian Tire or some such with flux core wire etc.
The hand tools are invaluable. Cordless tools are great too. Buy longevity over gimmicks. Dewalts or a house brand of a tool company can be the best bets. Home depot has the same battery packs they've had for ages. Saves on replacing the whole tool.

I'm kicking myself for not getting a smaller cordless setup and one of those impact guns(which I've always laughed about, because how can you be too lazy to drive screws with a drill?) Best tools I've ever owned. Put the screw driver in the end, with the sleeve for driving long screws and it lets me tighten huge hose clamps in seconds without ever slipping or stripping.
Where I often avoided my big hammer drill for weight, these are just too easy.

Nonsense. At least complaining about the youth of today hasn't gone out style. :laugher
The youth who rebuilt boats and sailed them away were not all that common then either.

While I do admit that most people my age are pretty useless, I don't believe there were that many less useless people in that age. If anything, the baby boomers are not exactly highly regarded for their ability to think about things critically or independently any more than the youth of today. How many of them had to worry about carrying insurance on the boats just to dock somewhere?
Or in case the boat sank so they wouldn't go bankrupt etc.

In any population, the majority of people will do what everyone else does, and seek approval.
Goes with being called the majority;)
 
#88 ·
Sailing and cruising especially can be very social. In fact now that I'm cruising I spend more time socializing with people than I did when I worked 9 to 5 and went home to watch TV.

Groups are a good way to make things happen. One person did not write the declaration of independence, one person has never won a war or solved serious healthcare issues.

My cost of living is a fraction of what it was when I lived on land, read Captn. Arrons posts about how he was making good money and living off the hook. Maybe youth should rent over priced apartments or pay hugely manipulated mortgage rates (ahem Barclays...), perhaps borrow money to buy a car, or spend money on gas and insurance to use such car. So if you live on a boat and have no money, how are you different than someone with all the land luxuries and have no equity. Easy, you are not obliged to make payments.

I do agree with the lack of ability to be hands on, but that is learned from our parents who are not very hands on either.

Really our society now lives in perpetual fear, which is a load. Unfortunately I think my generation believes this stuff. They are also ingrained to live hand to mouth, pay monthly/bi-weekly. Many young people look to whether they can afford the monthly payments vs. saving up and owning.
 
#89 ·
I do agree with the lack of ability to be hands on, but that is learned from our parents who are not very hands on either.
Good point!
I am reasonably handy but more important than the skills of experience or direct linage of skills passed on from parents can often be 'confidence'.

If I don't know how to fix something, I have two choices learn how, or pay somebody else to do it the latter has not always been an option and I know for many other it hasn't been either. But although I learnt some skills from my father, the biggest thing that I gleaned from his teachings was that "It's a learnable skill".
 
#90 ·

Well i am hands on person


And we got hands on young ones

Bret is one of the few minimalist that have passed through and shared enough about there lives to know that they walk the walk :D

On the other hand there is a large periodic collection of minimalist who keeps there life fairly top secret other than to tell us how great there life is and how bad ares sucks ;)
 
#91 · (Edited)
Being a minimalist takes minimal exlplanation, Buy little boat, anchor it out in bay, Live on it. Simple as simple. As for Tommays comment above, it looks like your life is pretty awesome to me. As I age I am aquiring more comforts, My most minimalist life style happend in my 20' and 30's. Now in my 40's, I have more stuff, but I have the skill and equipment to resort back to barebone's in an instant. The life I lead as a young adult was the catalist for my career today, and now I can afford to have some more stuff. I will alway's be an advocate of keeping the sailboat simply rigged and equiped with heavy duty manual stuff over complicated, expensive, fragile plastic stuff. And thank goodness Brent is here to lead by example. Spread the word man, here and any where else you can catch peoples attention.
I didn't even notice sailnet had add's.... oh, up top there, I never read that sh!t.
 
#96 ·
Thenquitcherbitchin. if you don't want to shell out to buy an ad, then don't complain when your posts disguised as ads get censored, and when you get banned form forums.
There's a fine line between thrift- as- a- lifestyle and freeloading hypocrisy. You're obviously a for-profit enterprise, otherwise you would give your books away for free, so the only thing different between you and those damn ad-buying "swindlers" to use your term, is that at least they BUY their advertising.

BTW, since it would sell more books, the price of the book could actually come down, due to the economies of scale thanks to the relatively small amount spent on advertising.

Brent, you've got a lot to offer, but you're your own worst enemy sometimes.
 
#100 · (Edited)
Nothing wrong with standing on a street corner and holding up your book and saying "Hey read this, you'll like it, I wrote it". The internet is just a busy street corner. Nothing wrong with some free press or a chance to plug your ideas, it's what's great about the internet I think. I didn't have to pay to join this sight, I'm not paying to voice my oppinion. And if any ones interested I have a sail boat for sale, and a 40 foot dive boat selling as a buisiness in Key West. I do deliveries for profit, send me a pm, I'm writing a book, look for it's promotioms on sailnet.com next year and if anybody wants to hire me for sailboat purchasing consultation I'm available, I have a tow endorsment on my liscence if you break down and need a tow, And my wife makes awesome cotton pant's with a tie string waist, they come in three colo(u)rs, white, blue and olive...oh ya, and she makes these toe to ankle bracelet things with bead's on 'em for the lady's........what else... I became a minister on line so I do weddings.
 
#101 ·
Normally I agree with just about everything you post but that doesn't work for me exactly.

To take that analogy a bit further The internet is a busy street, and this is a restaurant we're chatting in which we've opened the door to sit and talk in by signing up and agreeing to the dress code and other rules. If you walk into a restaurant you don't have to pay to get in the door. But if you start selling me your business, your wife's pants or trying to get me married in a restaurant you don't own, the owner is going to be mad. So am I if I don't like what you're selling. I'm likely to tell you to sell it elsewhere.

An exception is often made for the band that's playing in the corner, or the artist who's paintings are on the walls, but not all restaurants have this exception. I think Sailnet could well use having something like that, and I've heard that something to that effect may be coming in the future which makes sense. I think it's doable here because I don't imagine that every post will be answered with buy my book to see how to do what you are asking, instead the same helpful good answers are likely to be as forthcoming as always(I hope).
 
#102 ·
O.K. I see that, But if this is a resturaunt we are sitting in. we will be asked to leave if we don't buy something. We can't sit here an not order, or just have water, we'll get kicked out. I liken this to more of an open forum or Bazzar where we can choose to buy something we see if we like it or not. And we can choose to promote our selves and our wares. My wife hasn't made a pair of those pants in years, I've only done one wedding and that was for free, i was obviously just making a point.
 
#103 ·
Sorry to disagree slightly but in a bazaar the vendors typically pay to have a booth in the bazaar if you were to walk around without paying for a booth trying to hawk your wears typically a person would be escorted out. Getting off topic but just had to say. for a local example would be a flea market to which i use frequently and I'd like it pretty close to a bazaar and you don't get free reign to sell your goods.

Sailnet needs to pay the bills those being paid for with advertising.

With that said i find it odd they have zero adds on the moble version not sure why they haven't done something about that seems odd to me since the moble version is all i use since i nearly exclusively use my tablet.
 
#104 ·
...
With that said i find it odd they have zero adds on the moble version not sure why they haven't done something about that seems odd to me since the moble version is all i use since i nearly exclusively use my tablet.
My iPhone app has an ad for the marine LEDs that I also see on my laptop.
 
#105 ·
I get an ad at the top of the page for a Bob's "Crispy chicken sandwich" and it's driving me nuts! I'm starving!

I don't recall Brent selling his books here, just mentioning he has a book available. Did I miss the post? I have a copy and it's well worth buying for all the tips and insights, even if you don't have a steel boat.
 
#107 ·
It's much easier to point to a source of the information sought, than to repeat it over and over again, especially when that source contains far more information, which would be useful to the person asking.
Complaints I get are " No, you'd best throw that Brent Furler away and give me $3K for the one I'm selling." or "You have one of those Brent boats. Get out of here. You guys build all your own gear, and dont buy nothin." or "Brent doesn't charge enough." All of which I consider compliments , reaffirming that I am doing something effective to help low income cruisers get off the treadmill and out cruising. If they considered me one of them, that I would consider an insult.I have very little need for more money, and thoughts of more money rarely cross my mind. If I put out an effort to help people get out cruising in affordable ways, and dont sweat money issues , enough will come my way to take care of my meagre needs. Any more than that is irrelevant to me. Having helped a bit is the lions share of my reward.
When my pension rolls in, the book and plans will become more of a burden to me than a benefit. I'll have to keep them going for the benefit of cruisers. I would like to give them to the womens shelter, so they could take care of distribution for a source of funding, but they only want cash.
Sites which have banned me , still use my name to promote their sites. So who is being the freeloader there? People visit sites for the information they get and those who contribute valuable info are, in effect, making the a site more attractive to viewers, which greatly enhances their value to advertisers.
 
#109 ·
In response to the original question-

I see all kinds out on the water. Many of the minimalist and younger types tend to keep a low profile and I definetly see the merit in that approach. I have come full circle on telling people about the joy of living aboard. I'm tired of explaining all the newances of life on the hook. tired of defending living on the hook to the marina types.
And what's more, I kind of like the fact that the anchorages are not full everywhere. I really like solitude and often avoid interaction with others prefering my own company.
I'm thrilled to hear that key west is doable as a liveaboard on the hook and that there are ample income opportunities. I was concerned that I missed the "boat" on that, as I'm hoping to be there this winter, aboard of course.
Capt. Aaron - can you tell me anything about the bycycle cab jobs I see advertised? is it a real deal or just a scam ? I know I need a city bike cabby license, can I work independently or do I need to "rent" a bike from an existing buss. ?
I have a few sailing aquaintences that lived in KW for 2 years .THey made their way working in the square selling copper wire art and face painting while on the hook. They were budget cruisers and spoke of a decent community of people on the hook around wisteria. I'm looking forward to checking it out for myself,soon. I'm hoping for a good fit, I need to find a place to be ,I afraid I'm getting old and my time is short,just want to try to enjoy what's left.
 
#110 ·
I have some pedi-cab freinds and they do allright. You really have to rent from an existing bizz. I think it was $75.00 for the night which seemed like alot to me. But my buddy told me he was making about $800 a week. I see one older fellow doing it. I know it's mostly European kiids. My freind is from Serebia. I have some freinds that do Mallory Square. The guy twisting wire does well. He's good. He has a degree from MIT. My good friend did It for years making sand candles. The anchorage around Wisteria (christmas tree Island) is allright, I like Flemming key. Real Taxi drivers do well here. Lot's of options and opportunity's here:):)
 
#114 ·
thanks capt. Aaron

It's encouraging to hear that there are a few income oprtunities. And I'l look further into the fleming key anchorage.
We sail up and down the east coast seasonally and this fall I want to go to KW because I've never been. The work issue concerned me a little as I would prefer to make a few dolars and working is usually a good way to pass time and get to know an area and the people around. I just don't want to go as a total tourist and spend myself broke.
Last couple years I've realized that I gotta get to a few places I want to experience soon, times racing by.
Hope to see you their.
 
#115 ·
thanks capt. Aaron

It's encouraging to hear that there are a few income oprtunities. And I'l look further into the fleming key anchorage.
We sail up and down the east coast seasonally and this fall I want to go to KW because I've never been. The work issue concerned me a little as I would prefer to make a few dolars and working is usually a good way to pass time and get to know an area and the people around. I just don't want to go as a total tourist and spend myself broke.
Last couple years I've realized that I gotta get to a few places I want to experience soon, times racing by.
Hope to see you their.
Come down and get a job, we have them,. I would throw pride out the window and get down and work with the locals. Wait, bus tables. Mix concreate,paint fences, what ever. Flemmig is good in the winter. The further out the better. It's all about the dingy. If you can get on a plane, all the way out on the north west point is the best. If you have a 2.5 or are paddl'n the south west area, more crowded. either way you are close to town and work.
 
#116 ·
Why are you giving away all the secrets! Lol. Another idea, get a job in a marina. It's helping me out, every skill I learn directly applies to my boat.

Brent: I was thinking about what you said about the burden of maintaining the book. Have you considered having it converted for e book readers? E-books have the advantage of income, without the paper and mailing etc, sold online it would mean a lot less effort involved. I will be buying a copy when I can, but I would have already bought it if it were online. Minimal space means minimal paper, and I just prefer ebooks for that. Plus they don't tend to go out of print or get lost so easy.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
 
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