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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
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  #11  
Old 07-05-2012
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Re: Another tragedy on the water

We had an apparently overloaded and unstable tour boat on Lake George turn turtle a few of years back. A bunch of seniors drowned.

LIS is a lot more water to patrol than Newport Harbor. The police/harbor patrols in Newport do an outstanding job without being intrusive or obnoxious.

It is SUCH a tragedy when kids die due to adults' ignorance. Common sense is hard to legislate.
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  #12  
Old 07-05-2012
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Re: Another tragedy on the water

RIP...a terrible tragedy. It was the 1 year anniversary of me meeting my boat. My wife and I decided to watch the fireworks from the water and we though the center area in the Newport Beach harbor would be a great vantage point. We got there about 8:30. Fireworks started at 9. There were about 10 boats there, and I thought that it would be easy. Within 30 minutes it seemed no less than 100 boats arrived and were motoring around in a small area. A few HUGE 70+ footer boats were there...looked like cruise ships. As well as fully loaded 6 foot dingys. Most of the boats were 30-50 feet powerboats. I was involved with at least 3 near collisions because powerboats just were not looking. When it all ended it was chaos. I turned around and in avoiding about 5 or 6 boats, I became disoriented and all I saw were huge boats and people just whizzing around in powerboats irresponsibly. I am shocked there were no incidents. If the scene in Long Island was anywhere near what was here in Newport Beach, it was chaos.
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  #13  
Old 07-05-2012
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Re: Another tragedy on the water

My father nearly died Tuesday when a 30' speedboat missed him by a few feet while traveling at top speed. Would have cut my fathers boat in half if he hadn't spun it around bow on to the power boater. The Driver was literally looking backwards and didn't see my fathers boat. Scary stuff.

Not an uncommon experience unfortunately... seems most of them treat boats like a car. I'm all about tougher licensing on powerboats. First course will be how not to speed up just outside the marina and cut off slower sailboats with huge wake.
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Old 07-05-2012
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Re: Another tragedy on the water

Grossly overloaded, that's obvious. If they were there to watch fireworks, I would bet that most of them were sitting on the foredeck, which makes the load even more topheavy. And then a small wake makes it start to tip over, and all that weight shifts to the low side of the boat and it's game over. This is purely speculation on my part.

Fortunately there were only a couple dozen boats out on the Delaware last night. There was no single huge fireworks show in the area - just a bunch of shows sprinkled in different towns along the river's edge, so the boats were well dispersed instead of clustered tightly.

We sailed after dark, but kept the deck light on, which illuminated our headsail to make us more visible to the other boaters. As usual, there were powerboats that were going WAY too fast for the conditions.

I always keep an airhorn right at the binnicle - day and night, it goes there every time we go out. We keep it in the same bag with our winch handle, RAM mic, outboard lanyard, etc., so it comes out every time without fail. I'm not sure it would be loud enough for a powerboater to hear, but it's there to try if necessary, and I will not hesitate to use it aggressively if anyone comes too close.
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Old 07-05-2012
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Re: Another tragedy on the water

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchockT View Post
Without a doubt that boat was massively overloaded, and I doubt very much he had enough pfds for everyone as required by law. As far as I'm concerned the owner of the boat should be brought up on charges fir the deaths of those children.

Incidents like this also bring up that old question: If we have to be licenced to drive a car, why is it that anyone can operate any size pleasurecraft without having to prove you have any training or experience?
Attending a class is the law in Connecticut. I think NY recently passed some sort of law.

All the education in the world can't fix poor judgement. Sad.

One thing that keeps running through my head is; I wonder if the survivors could hear those kids screaming from inside the hull...till they couldn't. Sorry, I know that sounds horribly morbid but thinking about the how avoidable the whole tragedy is makes me angry.
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Old 07-05-2012
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Re: Another tragedy on the water

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Originally Posted by tommays View Post
The chaos that goes on after a fireworks show on the water is beyond believe
It sure is - a few years ago we had some clown "driving" a 43' Bayliner run between a barge and its tow after the Sea Festival fireworks. Cleaned the flying bridge off it and IIRC there were deaths.
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Old 07-05-2012
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Re: Another tragedy on the water

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchockT View Post
Incidents like this also bring up that old question: If we have to be licenced to drive a car, why is it that anyone can operate any size pleasurecraft without having to prove you have any training or experience?
Connecticut does require all powerboat operators to obtain a "safe boating certificate" from passing a boating safety course. I was grandfathered and did not have to take it because I already owned a powered boat (3hp OB on my daysailer) when the law was passed - around 1980 or so. New York also requires safe boating certificates for those operating powerboats - if they are between 10 and 18 years old. The NY DMV and NY Parks, which regulate this, do not seem to mention any requirements for those over 18. It seems that if you're over 18 in New York State, you suddenly automatically know all about powerboat safety. Amazing!
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Old 07-06-2012
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Re: Another tragedy on the water

Wife and I were sitting on my yacht club dock watching fireworks July 4 about 5 miles as the crow flies from where this occured. Watched the thunderstorm that may have played a part in the accident move north and east of us. Been through that stretch of water dozens of times.
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Old 07-06-2012
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Re: Another tragedy on the water

What a Tragedy.

BJ's numbers are consistent with the new coast guard guidelines for Assumed Weight Per Person. Which is now 185 lbs.

@ 27 paasengers, under the new AWPP he could have been carrying 4995 lbs of live ballast on a vessel that displaces 12,500 lbs.

There's an OLD formula that unfortunately gets disseminated in old literature.
That to calculate the vessel's capacity, you multiply the length X width and divide by 15.

Using that Math, the Silverton's numbers would have been 34 X 12.5 = 425
425/ 15 = 28.3 . So, it's interesting that he had exactly 27 people on the vessel.
Cooincidence? or did he find an old formula and figure that he could safely carry 27 people.

There were tears in my household, when I broke the news of this accident. Children need us to be smarter.

I have been trying to de-bunk that old capacity formula for years in the classes that I teach.

A lot of people carp about the Safe Boating courses that have become mandatory in many states. With any course, regardless of subject, I always felt that if I came away with at least one piece of valuable information, that I could put into practice, it was worthwhile. NY, has the 5th highest number of boating fatalities in the country, and the trend is upward. Granted boating in NY is still safer than driving on the Long island expressway, but the fact that they have no education requirements for those over 18 seems out of step.

There have been no reports of alcohol being involved in this accident. If we assume that the captain was trying to be a responsible boater, and was simply mis-informed regarding the capacity of his vessel, would 5 fewer passengers have made a difference? There were also reports that a wake from another vessel may have contributed to this incident.

Accidents are often the result of a number of contributing factors.
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Last edited by Tempest; 07-06-2012 at 07:45 AM.
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  #20  
Old 07-06-2012
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Re: Another tragedy on the water

In the area of the incident there is about as LARGE of a collection of 40' to 90' powerboats as is possible and even inside the Northport bay area they all think nothing of running at speeds that leave black hole size wakes that stuff the bow of the Cal 29 with ease

The accident happened outside in the sound between Oyster bay and Huntington with everybody hightailing it home to beat the incoming storm (NO STORM 10 KNOT WINDS)at the time of capsize and i sure there was every kind of wake going on from every direction at the same time as that is pretty much the norm
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Last edited by tommays; 07-06-2012 at 08:05 AM.
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