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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
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  #21  
Old 07-06-2012
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Re: Another tragedy on the water

5 fewer passengers is half a ton. I'm sure that would have made a difference, very possibly the critical difference.

There's one thing that is never taught in boaters' safety courses, and it ought to be: stay off the water on the 4th of July -- especially after dark.

While the driver of the Silverton might well have been sober, that doesn't mean alcohol played no part in the incident. The driver of the other boat(s) whose wakes capsized him will never be identified...

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Accidents are often the result of a number of contributing factors.
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  #22  
Old 07-06-2012
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Re: Another tragedy on the water

Another preventable tragedy worsened by the loss of innocent and trusting children. So sad for the parents of those children who will now face a lifetime of nightmares!
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  #23  
Old 07-06-2012
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Re: Another tragedy on the water

A perfect, but unfortunate time to discuss Vessel' stability the USCG requires that all passenger vessels over six passengers are required to have a stability test. This test includes a healing moment measuring metro centric center of gravity which will tell you how much weight you can carry above a certain height at the water line. Most all manufactured boats voluntarily perform these tests in yet a passenger rating.... in this particular case a Staplelton 34 foot is a very poor design for stability . This vessel has a DEEP V Hull and is a powerboat that has twin engines in the rear with a V
drive meaning engine face backwards to a normal inboard engine which is normally in the middle of the boat. The passenger space is on a fly bridge and rear deck over the engine's. This is a very high freeboard vessel which means that everyone ie weight is distributed about 5 feet above the water. There is a well deck in the rear which places the weight of the passengers about 3 feet above the water . The minute the captain tried to turn the V hull would cause of vessel to lean beyond its yielding point, the well deck in the rear would sink immediately. Vessel stability is very very important on any vessel. captg
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  #24  
Old 07-06-2012
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Re: Another tragedy on the water

Why would anyone want that many people on a boat? I own a boat to get away from people... LOL

Sad story and seems common sense was not on display...
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  #25  
Old 07-06-2012
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Re: Another tragedy on the water

One of the challenges of recreational boating is that the information necessary for due diligence isn't readily available. Owners and operators are dependent on the capacity plate. The good news is that the capacity plate is pretty conservative so if you keep within those limits you'll be in good shape. Note that the plate shows people AND cargo, so all the spares and other junk on the boat count against the limit. All that beer counts too. You can shift "people" to "cargo" but not the other way round as cargo doesn't move around the boat and crowd to one rail.

My boat is CE rated for 12 persons plus 4550 kg. My base load is about 1500 kg.

To really understand this stuff look at:

ships lines

inclining experiment

ship's weight estimate

CG, LCF, TCF, GM
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  #26  
Old 07-06-2012
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Re: Another tragedy on the water

The report that I read said that the boat was rated for 15 passengers, no alcohol involvement and it wouldn't be known if there were sufficient life jackets until the boat was recovered. The picture also showed a flybridge - I wonder how many people were up there getting a better view.
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Old 07-06-2012
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Re: Another tragedy on the water

I'd venture to guess that many, if not most people who purchase powerboats do not have a clue about the stability of the boat they're buying. Most view it as buying a car and never even think about whether it may capsize if too many people are on board. Things like the color of the Formica are way more important than hull characteristics. Just look at the gawdawful useless spaceship designs people buy. While you can't legislate sheer stupidity, at least stability information should be made abundantly clear to the mechanically impaired as to what a boat can and can't be expected to do.
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Old 07-06-2012
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Re: Another tragedy on the water

I also spent the July 4th holiday in Huntington, LI, NY, about 5 miles from where the accident occurred. I was not at the shore nor did I see the fireworks nearby. I don't care for the out of control crowds that flock to fireworks displays.
I found out about this incident the next morning at the youth sailing program I am a volunteer at. Quite a tragedy that this extended family are likely to never forget.
I had to laugh though, when I heard a radio news report say that "authorities are still investigating the cause of this accident; whether a rogue wave or equipment malfunction may have played a part in the accident". Rogue waves on LI Sound? Really?
I do believe that there must have been some large wakes left by other boats leaving the fireworks display but not 'rogue waves' on LI Sound.
People seem to lose their common sense on holidays like the 4th of July which is why I will not take my boat to such events as it is just too dangerous. Accidents happen even on land.
Last 4th of July my friend's brother-in-law (BIL) got run over by a pickup truck while going to retrieve a folding chair from his car. My friend's group wondered what happened to him as he did not return in 10 minutes as expected. About an hour later someone in their group got a cell phone call that BIL was being taken to Westchester Trauma Center with severe head injuries.

Be safe.
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Old 07-06-2012
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Re: Another tragedy on the water

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVAuspicious View Post
One of the challenges of recreational boating is that the information necessary for due diligence isn't readily available. Owners and operators are dependent on the capacity plate. The good news is that the capacity plate is pretty conservative so if you keep within those limits you'll be in good shape. Note that the plate shows people AND cargo, so all the spares and other junk on the boat count against the limit. All that beer counts too. You can shift "people" to "cargo" but not the other way round as cargo doesn't move around the boat and crowd to one rail.

My boat is CE rated for 12 persons plus 4550 kg. My base load is about 1500 kg.

To really understand this stuff look at:

ships lines

inclining experiment

ship's weight estimate

CG, LCF, TCF, GM
Aren't capacity plates only required on boats less than 20 ft.?
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Old 07-06-2012
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Re: Another tragedy on the water

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigZ View Post
Aren't capacity plates only required on boats less than 20 ft.?
'Not up to date on US regulation but that’s what I thought. However, SVAuspicios is quoting CE numbers and the European Recreational Craft Directive requires a builders plate (which states capacity) for all craft from 2.5 to 24 meters (about 8 to 78 feet).
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