ATN Gale Sail - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree7Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-16-2012
chall03's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,509
Thanks: 14
Thanked 20 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 12
chall03 will become famous soon enough
ATN Gale Sail

I am currently looking at storm Jib options for use offshore during extended passages.

I have considered installing a Solent stay, but have some reservations.

Which brings me to the ATN Gale sail. It looks like an interesting option, however I am concerned about ease of rigging and hoisting. Does anyone have any experience using one??
__________________
'Life is either a daring adventure or nothing' - Helen Keller



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 07-16-2012
Cruisingdad's Avatar
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Mobile Liveaboards
Posts: 9,894
Thanks: 3
Thanked 97 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough
Re: ATN Gale Sail

Hey my friend,

Me and S/V Auspicious had a bit of a discussion about this not too long ago. THe bottom line is why not go for a trysail instead? I don't like those Gale Sails. I don't like anything that puts the COE that far forward of the mast and make for a leward helm. ALso, in a diving sea, I bet that things catches a bunch of sea water. In my humble opinion, the mast is the place for a storm sail. It creates a weather helm and also allows for easier sailing because if going to weather, you can simply tack across without having to redo the lines. Now, this may not be an option depending on how you rig your trysail, but at least wroth some discussion.

Can you rig a Trysail instead or is it out of the question? My boat has a separate trysail track, but I know many masts dont.

Not trying to redirect your question at all... just throwing it out there for consideration. I know you are a very experienced sailor and know your business well and realize the positives and negatives of each. Just curious.

Brian
__________________
Sailnet Adminstrator & Moderator
Catalina 400 Technical Editor

2004 Catalina 400, Sea Mist IV (our boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in S FL and Keys primarily)
1987 Tayana Vancouver 42, Credendo Vides, (Mom and Pops boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in Puget Sound)

My Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow My Blog at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow me on Facebook:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 07-16-2012
chall03's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,509
Thanks: 14
Thanked 20 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 12
chall03 will become famous soon enough
Re: ATN Gale Sail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
Hey my friend,

Me and S/V Auspicious had a bit of a discussion about this not too long ago. THe bottom line is why not go for a trysail instead? I don't like those Gale Sails. I don't like anything that puts the COE that far forward of the mast and make for a leward helm. ALso, in a diving sea, I bet that things catches a bunch of sea water. In my humble opinion, the mast is the place for a storm sail. It creates a weather helm and also allows for easier sailing because if going to weather, you can simply tack across without having to redo the lines. Now, this may not be an option depending on how you rig your trysail, but at least wroth some discussion.

Can you rig a Trysail instead or is it out of the question? My boat has a separate trysail track, but I know many masts dont.

Not trying to redirect your question at all... just throwing it out there for consideration. I know you are a very experienced sailor and know your business well and realize the positives and negatives of each. Just curious.

Brian
Thanks and the redirection is good , the question about the Gale sail is all part of just considering our heavy weather options period.

We don't have a separate trysail track unfortunately so a trysail is problematic as well.
We do have a third deep reef in our main, a few cruiser's suggested this was the way to go shorthanded without the benefit of a separate trysail track.
SVAuspicious likes this.
__________________
'Life is either a daring adventure or nothing' - Helen Keller



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 07-16-2012
Cruisingdad's Avatar
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Mobile Liveaboards
Posts: 9,894
Thanks: 3
Thanked 97 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough
Re: ATN Gale Sail

Quote:
Originally Posted by chall03 View Post
Thanks and the redirection is good , the question about the Gale sail is all part of just considering our heavy weather options period.

We don't have a separate trysail track unfortunately so a trysail is problematic as well.
We do have a third deep reef in our main, a few cruiser's suggested this was the way to go shorthanded without the benefit of a separate trysail track.
THat is what I have always used (3rd reef). I have spoken to many circumnavigators whose trysails never saw the light of day. Sems light airs are the bigger problem.

I am not a fan of sails forward of the mast UNLESS they are in addition to a main to balance the boat. Exception is when running in seas which is different as an accidental jibe is more of a concern for us and the leward helm s less of an issue. We sail with kids so everything sems shorthanded, as do you I believe.

Do you have slab reefing, inmast, or what? I cannot remember. If inmast, we mark on our reefing line different sail options (100%, 75, 25, etc). THis can account for different reef poits, but with a inmast, you have infinite options. But it is good to know approximately where the two balance the boat. This works if you also have a line on your jib reefing line that coordinates with the main. THat is what we do, anyways. If slab reefing, I hate going to the mast/boom and securing it down in a blow (which always seems to come at night). Get hairy and requires anoter person on deck (at least that is our rules).

On our trip across the gulf, we had the jib back fill and I had to go forward in large seas to undo it. It was very hard to keep from going airborn when the boat fell off the seas. I cannot imagine trying to rig or take down a gale sail in those conditions, which inevitably would occur. Versus at the mast, you have something to hold on to and you are in the center of the boat with less motion. Plus, you don't have the green water coming over the bow trying to take you over. THat is my reasoning (plus the weather helm). We can balance our boat with the jib too, but often find the main is sufficient and a lot less work.

I would love to hear some positive comments on the Gale Sail from those that have used them in a hard blow. I am also curious if they had a bad leward helm and were forced to balance the boat or fight the rudder all night?

Brian
__________________
Sailnet Adminstrator & Moderator
Catalina 400 Technical Editor

2004 Catalina 400, Sea Mist IV (our boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in S FL and Keys primarily)
1987 Tayana Vancouver 42, Credendo Vides, (Mom and Pops boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in Puget Sound)

My Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow My Blog at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow me on Facebook:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 07-16-2012
tdw's Avatar
tdw tdw is offline
Super Fuzzy Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 14,328
Thanks: 5
Thanked 67 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 10
tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough
Re: ATN Gale Sail

Chall,
I really have never been caught out in anything severe enough to warrant me discussing storm sails but one thing I do know .... Solent Stays are a pain in the arse.

Our old girl had an inner for a hanked on staysail, that never left the locker in six years. The new boat has a Solent with furler and I am about to be shot of the thing. The standard inner (running parallel to the forestay) is pretty much OK cos the gap twixt the stays is big enough for the sail to flomp over in a tack and the attachment point on the mast helps stabilise the rig. With the Solent the genoa always gets caught up and is a misery for all concerned while it does nothing for rig stability.

While the new girl has sailed from Sweden to Australia without having or apparently needing a trisail we do have available track and this is the way we are going. I'd have thought that adding track to your mast would be no big deal.

Cheers

Andrew B
__________________
Andrew B

“Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.” Terry Pratchett
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 07-16-2012
chall03's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,509
Thanks: 14
Thanked 20 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 12
chall03 will become famous soon enough
Re: ATN Gale Sail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
THat is what I have always used (3rd reef). I have spoken to many circumnavigators whose trysails never saw the light of day. Sems light airs are the bigger problem.
I have heard similar, so when we commisioned our new main we got a third reef put in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
I am not a fan of sails forward of the mast UNLESS they are in addition to a main to balance the boat. Exception is when running in seas which is different as an accidental jibe is more of a concern for us and the leward helm s less of an issue. We sail with kids so everything sems shorthanded, as do you I believe.
Yes. Reefing while still singing along to Sesame Street is nearly worthy of it's own thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
Do you have slab reefing, inmast, or what? I cannot remember. If inmast, we mark on our reefing line different sail options (100%, 75, 25, etc). THis can account for different reef poits, but with a inmast, you have infinite options. But it is good to know approximately where the two balance the boat. This works if you also have a line on your jib reefing line that coordinates with the main. THat is what we do, anyways. If slab reefing, I hate going to the mast/boom and securing it down in a blow (which always seems to come at night). Get hairy and requires anoter person on deck (at least that is our rules).
We have single line reefing. It is run so that theoretically we can do it all from the cockpit, but in reality it is better with someone at the mast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post

On our trip across the gulf, we had the jib back fill and I had to go forward in large seas to undo it. It was very hard to keep from going airborn when the boat fell off the seas. I cannot imagine trying to rig or take down a gale sail in those conditions, which inevitably would occur. Versus at the mast, you have something to hold on to and you are in the center of the boat with less motion. Plus, you don't have the green water coming over the bow trying to take you over. THat is my reasoning (plus the weather helm). We can balance our boat with the jib too, but often find the main is sufficient and a lot less work.

I would love to hear some positive comments on the Gale Sail from those that have used them in a hard blow. I am also curious if they had a bad leward helm and were forced to balance the boat or fight the rudder all night?
That is precisely my concern, that when required it would just be too big a PITA. We have backwinded and wrapped our Genoa and tangled/messed up our Genoa sheets in moderate seas before( Don't ask it wasn't a good day) and spending 5 mintues on the bow in these conditions was umm fairly unpleasant. I struggle to comprehend what the bow would be like in gale or storm conditions.

We have used the third reef a couple of times in conjunction with a hankerchief of unfurled genoa in squall conditions. I have also practised hoving-to in heavy air with this arrangement, and while it works, the reality is that a bonafide storm jib obviously would be an improvement.

Being novices to heavy weather sailing, I am just curious to hear what people have found works for them.
__________________
'Life is either a daring adventure or nothing' - Helen Keller



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by chall03; 07-16-2012 at 09:12 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 07-16-2012
RobGallagher's Avatar
HANUMAN
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Noank, Connecticut, USA
Posts: 1,314
Thanks: 7
Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
RobGallagher is on a distinguished road
Re: ATN Gale Sail

I don't own a Galesail or a Trysail but I'll stick my .02 cents in anyway...

I thought the Galesail was meant as a storm jib to go over a furled, larger headsail, not meant to replace a reefed main or a trysail. Keeping the jib lower to the deck where it should be instead of up high as in a heavily roller reefed genny AND made of heavier dacron so as not to damage a lighter sail.

Anyway, if I ever buy one it would be to fly with a reefed main or downwind in heavy seas without a main. In the mean time I'll probably just continue to stay in when it blows
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 07-16-2012
chall03's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,509
Thanks: 14
Thanked 20 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 12
chall03 will become famous soon enough
Re: ATN Gale Sail

Rob that is precisely what it is.
My concern being getting the thing clipped on and hoisted in such conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
Chall,
I really have never been caught out in anything severe enough to warrant me discussing storm sails but one thing I do know .... Solent Stays are a pain in the arse.

Our old girl had an inner for a hanked on staysail, that never left the locker in six years. The new boat has a Solent with furler and I am about to be shot of the thing. The standard inner (running parallel to the forestay) is pretty much OK cos the gap twixt the stays is big enough for the sail to flomp over in a tack and the attachment point on the mast helps stabilise the rig. With the Solent the genoa always gets caught up and is a misery for all concerned while it does nothing for rig stability.

While the new girl has sailed from Sweden to Australia without having or apparently needing a trisail we do have available track and this is the way we are going. I'd have thought that adding track to your mast would be no big deal.

Cheers

Andrew B
I think your right about a Solent Stay. The whole thing would be a major project, and I am over those for the moment. Enter the gale sail, looks nifty, solves the issue, but if when the proverbial hits the fan it doesn't do the job then it's just going to be an expensive locker clogger.

Never been out in anything that really warranted it either, a couple of times when I wished we had a few more options up our sleeve. Exciting squalls up north were a bit of practice but we could of really motored through under bare poles/third reef.
However next years plan involves more of the big blue stuff, so figured it makes sense to think about it and find out what works for people.(yes Smack I am reading the heavy weather thread). I personally don't want to find out what doesn't work the hard way.
__________________
'Life is either a daring adventure or nothing' - Helen Keller



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by chall03; 07-16-2012 at 10:32 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 07-16-2012
Geoff54's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 691
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Geoff54 is on a distinguished road
Re: ATN Gale Sail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
I am not a fan of sails forward of the mast UNLESS they are in addition to a main to balance the boat. Exception is when running in seas which is different as an accidental jibe is more of a concern for us and the leward helm s less of an issue.
'Agree completely - I'd rather have good balance, even if that means having a little too much sail up. I should qualify that by saying I've never needed less sail than a triple reefed main and a hank-on storm jib on a normal forestay (as the wind built we pulled down the genoa put up working jib then pulled down the working jib and and run up a storm jib). We had a little too much sail up but I can't tell you the wind speed because we had no way to measure it - at least it means I can't exaggerate.

A couple of years ago, one of the Brit magazines (Practical Boat Owner I think) tested several options for a storm jib on a boat with a roller. I seem to recall that they tested sleeve types (one which was the Gale Sail), wrap-arounds, free flying and conventional hank-on on a removable inner forestay. I don’t remember the details but I do remember the conclusion was that a hank-on storm jib on a removable inner stay was actually less complicated and the preferred way to go. 'Don’t know if that helps of adds to the confusion.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 07-17-2012
tdw's Avatar
tdw tdw is offline
Super Fuzzy Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 14,328
Thanks: 5
Thanked 67 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 10
tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough
Re: ATN Gale Sail

Geoff .... crew number ?

Everything I do and say is premised on there only being me alone or the two of us. Its pretty much that which determines my push for simplicity. Relying on others advice to guide me but I'm concerned about the need to pull down and stow a good sized genoa then hank on and raise the storm jib. All this in worsening conditions. I confess that is what I like about a true inner forestay and a hanked on storm jib. Of course the negative of the TIF is the probable need for runners.

My thinking is to remove the furler from the solent stay which would make it oh so much easier to then stow the solent against the mast, to be set for a long passage where number of tacks is very much limited under normal circumstances. Storm jib is then left hanked onto the solent on passage. Deployment requiring tensioning of the solent. As we already have the solent this may be a better idea than simply ridding ourselves of the solent altogether.

I guess one would need to see just how much weather helm the staysail or third reefed main induced. That would let you know if you needed something up front to balance the helm.



Hey Brian .... when you were down to your triple reefed main was your genoa still on the furler ? Was windage any issue with that ?
oysterman23 likes this.
__________________
Andrew B

“Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.” Terry Pratchett
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gale Sail or just reef the jib in strong winds? (SF Bay) MarkSF Gear & Maintenance 48 06-08-2012 02:25 PM
Cooking in a gale..... MedSailor Gear & Maintenance 8 02-27-2012 12:11 PM
Gale Force Wildwind 20 Tortuga12 General Discussion (sailing related) 0 06-03-2008 01:05 PM
Gale Sail Freesail99 Gear & Maintenance 23 12-03-2007 05:00 PM
Great sail, great gale, a little carnage and lessons learned CharlieCobra Seamanship & Navigation 10 11-19-2007 05:40 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:30 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.