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  #71  
Old 07-19-2012
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Re: nautical language rant

The language is one of the barriers to entry for new participants in this sport, especially if we make it one.

I think its fine that we have our own terminology, but it should be taught where its usefulness is practical. Not ridiculed.

Admittedly, once someone is taught that it is a winch, my skin itches to hear them continue calling it a wench. A winch is not a wench. But, while I am snobby and lines are lines, not ropes. The fact is, they are ropes.
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  #72  
Old 07-19-2012
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Re: nautical language rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
The language is one of the barriers to entry for new participants in this sport, especially if we make it one.

I think its fine that we have our own terminology, but it should be taught where its usefulness is practical. Not ridiculed.

Admittedly, once someone is taught that it is a winch, my skin itches to hear them continue calling it a wench. A winch is not a wench. But, while I am snobby and lines are lines, not ropes. The fact is, they are ropes.
I agree. I've had some folks tell me that they felt overwhelmed by all the terms. I told them that I don't expect 'em to know them all at once, and that it takes time.

I do a lot of "pull that blue line" kind of direction, and just ask them to learn a little more with each race. I don't want the terminology to be a barrier.

Cruising? I don't really care if they learn the terms or not, it's mostly a racing thing where seconds count.

"trim"
"ease"
"blow"
"hike"
"sheet"

These are all one-syllable words that save a lot of time during a race.
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  #73  
Old 07-19-2012
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Re: nautical language rant

Normally I'd post this after the quote, but this one is so long I wanted others to actually find it.

Doc ye must be one o them that deals with the backside poop shute as this post is IMHO 'ANAL'.

c_witch


Quote:
Originally Posted by jsnaulty View Post
I just can't stand it any longer! (no, this is not a goodbye thread, sorry- besides no one would care if I left) . I have put up with "births" instead of "berths" for 20 years on various forums and before that , bulletin boards, but I just can't do it any more!. Latest statistics ( I checked ) suggest that very few people have babies on boats, but if by some mischance they did, it would be in a 'berth".

I have "wenches" on my boat, but they are the ones who crank the "winches". It is "should have, or should've" not should of. Can you drive, hike or bike on an "anchor road"? How do you repair a spongy "front deck" or would you rather fix the "foredeck". "Topsides" are part of the hull, not the deck. (If you ask the painter to paint your red boat's (I did envy Treilly's E35-3 's 'cordelia') 'topsides" white, thinking you finally would have a deck without bird + blueberry stains, you might be surprised when you go to see her at the job completion)

These are all examples taken from just the previous day on Sailnet. Am I being too picky, and we should just ignore these 'mistakes'? (which are repeated ad infinitum in these and other such places. Or should we point out proper nautical usage to preserve our beautiful and meaningful words.

I have just co-authored a book on Medical Terms and their meanings. Sort of a dictionary, but with the derivations, literal meaning of the term, and examples of proper usage. Using such a text would not be remiss in the nautical field, and they may well exist. I think I'll look for one when I finish the rant, or you can and add it to the discussion that I hope ensues. In medicine, people's lives depend on all the multiple people involved in modern medical care understand and use proper terminology. I would never suggest to a surgeon to 'remove some of the gut' instead of "I think a partial resection of the distal ileum and re-anastamosis is needed".

I wonder how much nautical 'yelling' and tears involves this lack of understanding the terminology. I don't know how many times I have been peaceably anchored, with a chesapeake squall on the way. Up comes a very large, new looking boat, with the helmsman screaming over the thunderstorm to the crewperson "wrap the rope around the little thingy on the front" , followed by a loud dialog about which thingy, tie what?, where? , fending him off, etc. If he could just say" cleat the anchor rode" and the crew understand him, things would be different. (admittedly, if you thought "road" instead of "rode", the result, in this case, would be the same.

I posit that there would be much less miscommunication, tears, angry silences, and other anger manifestations that you know have to eventually apologize for if you and your spouse or crew could use and understand the proper terms. If you know the proper terminology, use it and explain it to others on your boat. If you don't know it, learn it! I don't think nautical terminology exists to make us elitists or to sound important and nautical to landlubbers, but to facilitate clear discussion and action.

end rant

steve naulty
ericson 35-3 'anodyne'
shadyside MD
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Old 07-31-2012
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nautical language rant

The expression "know the ropes" comes from sailing, when the first thing a crew member was required to do was learn what the name of all the lines As an aside, this shows that the word "ropes" does have a place on a sailboat. A rope is the thing that becomes a line when it is attached.
I do appreciate the distinction between crew and guests, and expect more from the crew. But I also admit to getting annoyed by all the posters on salient whose little boats are dingy. And for those who say spelling is unimportant, try doing a web search for wench and winch. Both results are interesting, but quite different.
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  #75  
Old 07-31-2012
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Re: nautical language rant

Whut? Them aint rubber bump3r thingy's ..

From a beginner ... no I dont know all the lingo yet it will come in time if I am allowed to participate .
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  #76  
Old 07-31-2012
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Re: nautical language rant

Unfortunetly for me I had all the lingo yelled into me by Grand Pa so violently that I for some time refused to use it. And then as a single handler I never had to refer to anything to anybody. My years working on a sailing school / research vessel was enlightening as to how vast the vocabulary is. Now as a merchant marine we enjoy calling the galley the kitchen and the head the restroom, line is still line, but we get a kick out of refering to the capstain as- big thing that goes round and "Put the thing on the thing and tie it" or " go left when you pass the blinky thing" . When I'm home how ever all of a sudden the kithen is the galley and the head is the head. I actually twrilled my finger pointing down like a crane instruction to my wife when I wanted her to turn down the t.v. last time I was home. It is important to know the language though, it is there for a reason but it's more important to know what things do first. The language get's absorbed eventually.
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Old 07-31-2012
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Re: nautical language rant

This is a good reason for single handing your vessel, You can say what you want: as long as you don't answer yourself, it's all good! ....Dale
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  #78  
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Re: nautical language rant

And remember, yachty's are Snobby and Sailors are Knotty.
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  #79  
Old 07-31-2012
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Re: nautical language rant

Many of the discrepancies in the original rant are only a concern in a written / online context. When speaking on deck, the difference between "berth" & "birth", "rode" & "road", "clew" & "clue" etc. are indistinguishable. The issue, on the deck, is that the crew hasn't been taught the language you wish for them to know. I'm guessing it's the captain's job to ensure his crew is educated to their standard so only one person to blame...

The issue online is as futile as trying to ensure everyone on the Internet learns and uses the correct version of "your & "you're", "there" & "they're" & "their". It's not worth arguing over.

In theory, as long as everyone on a boat uses the same name for an item, e.g "Otto" for the autohelm, then clear communication is possible... on that boat. However, I encourage any crew on my boat to learn the proper nautical terms so that they can sail on any boat, any where, and be able to communicate effectively.
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Old 07-31-2012
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Re: nautical language rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by JordanH View Post
Many of the discrepancies in the original rant are only a concern in a written / online context. When speaking on deck, the difference between "berth" & "birth", "rode" & "road", "clew" & "clue" etc. are indistinguishable. The issue, on the deck, is that the crew hasn't been taught the language you wish for them to know. I'm guessing it's the captain's job to ensure his crew is educated to their standard so only one person to blame...

The issue online is as futile as trying to ensure everyone on the Internet learns and uses the correct version of "your & "you're", "there" & "they're" & "their". It's not worth arguing over.

In theory, as long as everyone on a boat uses the same name for an item, e.g "Otto" for the autohelm, then clear communication is possible... on that boat. However, I encourage any crew on my boat to learn the proper nautical terms so that they can sail on any boat, any where, and be able to communicate effectively.
This ^
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