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nautical language rant

9K views 83 replies 52 participants last post by  SloopJonB 
#1 ·
I just can't stand it any longer! (no, this is not a goodbye thread, sorry- besides no one would care if I left) . I have put up with "births" instead of "berths" for 20 years on various forums and before that , bulletin boards, but I just can't do it any more!. Latest statistics ( I checked ) suggest that very few people have babies on boats, but if by some mischance they did, it would be in a 'berth".

I have "wenches" on my boat, but they are the ones who crank the "winches". It is "should have, or should've" not should of. Can you drive, hike or bike on an "anchor road"? How do you repair a spongy "front deck" or would you rather fix the "foredeck". "Topsides" are part of the hull, not the deck. (If you ask the painter to paint your red boat's (I did envy Treilly's E35-3 's 'cordelia') 'topsides" white, thinking you finally would have a deck without bird + blueberry stains, you might be surprised when you go to see her at the job completion)

These are all examples taken from just the previous day on Sailnet. Am I being too picky, and we should just ignore these 'mistakes'? (which are repeated ad infinitum in these and other such places. Or should we point out proper nautical usage to preserve our beautiful and meaningful words.

I have just co-authored a book on Medical Terms and their meanings. Sort of a dictionary, but with the derivations, literal meaning of the term, and examples of proper usage. Using such a text would not be remiss in the nautical field, and they may well exist. I think I'll look for one when I finish the rant, or you can and add it to the discussion that I hope ensues. In medicine, people's lives depend on all the multiple people involved in modern medical care understand and use proper terminology. I would never suggest to a surgeon to 'remove some of the gut' instead of "I think a partial resection of the distal ileum and re-anastamosis is needed".

I wonder how much nautical 'yelling' and tears involves this lack of understanding the terminology. I don't know how many times I have been peaceably anchored, with a chesapeake squall on the way. Up comes a very large, new looking boat, with the helmsman screaming over the thunderstorm to the crewperson "wrap the rope around the little thingy on the front" , followed by a loud dialog about which thingy, tie what?, where? , fending him off, etc. If he could just say" cleat the anchor rode" and the crew understand him, things would be different. (admittedly, if you thought "road" instead of "rode", the result, in this case, would be the same.

I posit that there would be much less miscommunication, tears, angry silences, and other anger manifestations that you know have to eventually apologize for if you and your spouse or crew could use and understand the proper terms. If you know the proper terminology, use it and explain it to others on your boat. If you don't know it, learn it! I don't think nautical terminology exists to make us elitists or to sound important and nautical to landlubbers, but to facilitate clear discussion and action.

end rant

steve naulty
ericson 35-3 'anodyne'
shadyside MD
 
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#2 ·
I agree that proper terminology goes a long way towards fostering precise understanding, as long the communication is between the initiated. This is from my boat's SOP:

Vocabulary: There is a nautical language and we employ it on Wind Orchid. As you learn the ropes, learn the language and use it. For example, there is no “kitchen” but there is a galley. As a snotty boot lubber, you won’t have the Bos’n’s pipe or the Pilot’s smarts on day one. But not to worry. Just because you can’t tell a can from a nun or a bowline from a sheet bend, we’ll not let the cat out of the bag and show you the Captain’s daughter, at least not on your first cruise. So, your Banyan and the Midshipman’s nuts are safe as long as you progress towards keeping all in Bristol fashion, well and by.
 
#3 ·
I am in total agreement.

I have told my racing crew that although sailing terminology is arcane, it's still totally functional and will be used.

I told them that after their first couple of races, that I will stop referring to things as "the blue flecked line, the black line, or that line over there".

It's not that I get off on "talking like a pirate", it's that these words still refer to jobs and equipment and there is no modern terminology to replace them.

So, HTFU and learn the terminology!
 
#10 ·
I am in total agreement.

I have told my racing crew that although sailing terminology is arcane, it's still totally functional and will be used.

I told them that after their first couple of races, that I will stop referring to things as "the blue flecked line, the black line, or that line over there".

It's not that I get off on "talking like a pirate", it's that these words still refer to jobs and equipment and there is no modern terminology to replace them.

So, HTFU and learn the terminology!
And trust me, he means it. He'll fire your boot-wearin' butt worldwide if you so much as say the word "rope" on his ride. Heh-heh.
 
#4 ·
I just can't stand it any longer! (no, this is not a goodbye thread, sorry- besides no one would care if I left) . I have put up with "births" instead of "berths" for 20 years on various forums and before that , bulletin boards, but I just can't do it any more!. Latest statistics ( I checked ) suggest that very few people have babies on boats, but if by some mischance they did, it would be in a 'berth".
...
These are all examples taken from just the previous day on Sailnet. Am I being too picky, and we should just ignore these 'mistakes'? (which are repeated ad infinitum in these and other such places. Or should we point out proper nautical usage to preserve our beautiful and meaningful words.
...
I wonder how much nautical 'yelling' and tears involves this lack of understanding the terminology. I don't know how many times I have been peaceably anchored, with a chesapeake squall on the way. Up comes a very large, new looking boat, with the helmsman screaming over the thunderstorm to the crewperson "wrap the rope around the little thingy on the front" , followed by a loud dialog about which thingy, tie what?, where? , fending him off, etc. If he could just say" cleat the anchor rode" and the crew understand him, things would be different. (admittedly, if you thought "road" instead of "rode", the result, in this case, would be the same.
...
Part of the problem in the forum may be a reliance on spell check, which (to use your example) sees "birth" as a correct spelling. So, if I'm typing as fast as I can to be the next to respond to a particular post, I may not catch it.

I hear you about the spelling, while I'm not perfect, it's obvious that some people either just don't care or spelling is just not their forte. But, *shrug*, I'm not going to lose sleep over it and they probably aren't, either. I had my rant about it last year and I've moved on. In reality, I'm the mathematical equivalent so who am I to throw stones?

I posit that there would be much less miscommunication, tears, angry silences, and other anger manifestations that you know have to eventually apologize for if you and your spouse or crew could use and understand the proper terms. If you know the proper terminology, use it and explain it to others on your boat. If you don't know it, learn it! I don't think nautical terminology exists to make us elitists or to sound important and nautical to landlubbers, but to facilitate clear discussion and action.
...
Posit away. "Learn nautical-speak or stay the hell off my boat" probably won't work so well to encourage people to learn it, either. :)
 
#5 ·
These are all examples taken from just the previous day on Sailnet. Am I being too picky, and we should just ignore these 'mistakes'? (which are repeated ad infinitum in these and other such places. Or should we point out proper nautical usage to preserve our beautiful and meaningful words.
Yeah too picky! .. I dunno bout yalls buts I's thinks beesing a word Nazi is suptin dat takes up too much tyme! :D
 
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#6 ·
Don't have a clew what you are talking about! :)
We (I) often take out novices who are along for a joy ride, then we (I) ask them to cleat lines or hand them to me etc without any warning or training. That's why my mainsheet is blue, main halyard blue/white my spinnaker halyard and topping lift are green and white.

yes, dock lines run through chocks, not thingys, the boat has a head, there is a mainsail and a jib. If the metal thing hits you in the head, it goes 'boom'.
 
#16 ·
Colour coded lines are something I have used for decades - ever since all white was the norm. I used to have dock walkers comment on the "carnival" atmosphere they created.

They are very useful for newbies - "pull hard on the blue line" - but they are also useful when sorting out the knitting on the cockpit sole after a spinnaker gybe. They simply make things quicker and easier to identify - they are still called sheets, guys, halyards etc.
 
#12 · (Edited)
I am with JS on this one. But mainly just the English language massacres.

Some that drive me nuts:

- Should of, would of, etc. No more phonetic spelling. Learn the language
- Irregardless. No such word. Period.
- To, too and two. 3 different words.
- There, their and they're. 3 different words
- Were and Where. 2 words.

I am certainly no English language expert but these are really elementary(as in, I learned this in elementary school) components of our language.

And enough with "kewl". It isn't cute anymore.

Rant over.
 
#13 ·
I just can't stand it any longer! (no, this is not a goodbye thread, sorry- besides no one would care if I left) . I have put up with "births" instead of "berths" for 20 years on various forums and before that , bulletin boards, but I just can't do it any more!. Latest statistics ( I checked ) suggest that very few people have babies on boats, but if by some mischance they did, it would be in a 'berth".

I have "wenches" on my boat, but they are the ones who crank the "winches". It is "should have, or should've" not should of. Can you drive, hike or bike on an "anchor road"? How do you repair a spongy "front deck" or would you rather fix the "foredeck". "Topsides" are part of the hull, not the deck. (If you ask the painter to paint your red boat's (I did envy Treilly's E35-3 's 'cordelia') 'topsides" white, thinking you finally would have a deck without bird + blueberry stains, you might be surprised when you go to see her at the job completion)

These are all examples taken from just the previous day on Sailnet. Am I being too picky, and we should just ignore these 'mistakes'? (which are repeated ad infinitum in these and other such places. Or should we point out proper nautical usage to preserve our beautiful and meaningful words.

I have just co-authored a book on Medical Terms and their meanings. Sort of a dictionary, but with the derivations, literal meaning of the term, and examples of proper usage. Using such a text would not be remiss in the nautical field, and they may well exist. I think I'll look for one when I finish the rant, or you can and add it to the discussion that I hope ensues. In medicine, people's lives depend on all the multiple people involved in modern medical care understand and use proper terminology. I would never suggest to a surgeon to 'remove some of the gut' instead of "I think a partial resection of the distal ileum and re-anastamosis is needed".

I wonder how much nautical 'yelling' and tears involves this lack of understanding the terminology. I don't know how many times I have been peaceably anchored, with a chesapeake squall on the way. Up comes a very large, new looking boat, with the helmsman screaming over the thunderstorm to the crewperson "wrap the rope around the little thingy on the front" , followed by a loud dialog about which thingy, tie what?, where? , fending him off, etc. If he could just say" cleat the anchor rode" and the crew understand him, things would be different. (admittedly, if you thought "road" instead of "rode", the result, in this case, would be the same.

I posit that there would be much less miscommunication, tears, angry silences, and other anger manifestations that you know have to eventually apologize for if you and your spouse or crew could use and understand the proper terms. If you know the proper terminology, use it and explain it to others on your boat. If you don't know it, learn it! I don't think nautical terminology exists to make us elitists or to sound important and nautical to landlubbers, but to facilitate clear discussion and action.

end rant

steve naulty
ericson 35-3 'anodyne'
shadyside MD
I like this guy.
Well said.
 
#14 ·
Just to add another to the list of common English errors: using an apostrophe to form the plural (such as "marina's" to mean more than one marina). On the whole I'm shocked by the amount of English errors in posts here, but then I work with language for a living and take it seriously.
 
#17 ·
I have been working to rebed all of my deck hardware. With one person on deck holding a bolt head, and one person below turning nuts, it is amazing how much more efficient it is to use, "port", "starboard", "fore", and "aft", rather than yelling "the one to your right... NO MY RIGHT...arg"

One other common terminology error. The mast head light is the steaming light part way up the mast, not the stuff at the... um... mast head.
 
#18 ·
I remember being dressed down back in the FC days by an uppity ship's captain dude regarding the term "deadlights". He assured me I was wrong in my usage. I wasn't.

The point is, terminology is never as precise as language nerds want it to be. And those that pretend to know it inside and out can be way more annoying than those that don't have a clue. Because they still get stuff wrong.

As long as you walk your crew/guests through the basics, then only expect from them what you've shown them (i.e. - not yell at them to "cap the damn hawse pipe!" if you've not shown them what that is), the yelling and screaming is typically pretty minimal.

This is one of the problems with sailing forums. It's typically all about form and not function.

Just get out and sail for crying out loud.
 
#19 ·
This isn't about grammar Nazism. This is about using effective terms in a specialized setting: Boating. Specifically: Sailing. There's a lot of gear, mechanisms, lines, etc. on a sailboat. When there is more than one individual operating the boat, clear, precise and succinct communication is absolutely necessary.

It could mean the difference, for example, between a successful crash tack and an unfortunate t-boning.

Jim
 
#21 ·
What about "Rubber Bumper Thingies"? That's nautical, right? Captain Ron said it!!

As far as spelling, when I write books or articles, etc - my spelling and use of the fine english language is right on. But on Sailnet which is a forum, I just try to get the basics across. I personally couldn't care less if it was spelled correctly. As long as you can understand what is being relayed, that is all that matters in my opinion. And I get too busy here to go back and make sure every thread is grammatically correct.

THere is a book (we have it) called the Nautical Dictionary. Really cool, honestly. In addition to having every nautical word known to man, it also has their history and where they were derived from.

For example, where did the words Port and Starboard come from and what was their significance? WHat about halyard? What about sheet? And as a little side note, before any of us get too stuck on the proper spelling of these words, you might be surprised to learn that many of these words have changed spelling over time! Our proper spelling of some would be considered misspelled by the sailors of old (assuming they could spell at all). Is halyard spelled Halyard? Or is it Halliard? Or wait... is it Haul Yard.... or is it Haul a Yard...

Brian
 
#47 ·
What about "Rubber Bumper Thingies"? That's nautical, right? Captain Ron said it!!
He did call them fenders first and when no-one in the family knew what he was talking about, he called them "rubber bump...."

you might be surprised to learn that many of these words have changed spelling over time! Our proper spelling of some would be considered misspelled by the sailors of old (assuming they could spell at all). Is halyard spelled Halyard? Or is it Halliard? Or wait... is it Haul Yard.... or is it Haul a Yard...Brian
That's one of God's little jokes - the thing that keeps English alive is that it changes over time. The irony is that it's the illiterates that do the changing. If everyone had always spoken proper English, we'd all still be speaking like Shakespeare. ;)
 
#24 ·
I invite guests on my boat, so that I can enjoy their company, to have a good time and enjoy the day. I have no problem, saying right or left, front or back, rope or kitchen, toilet..etc...They're not sailors and I don't expect them to learn a language, for an occasional outing, that took me years to learn. When I'm with sailors, I speak sailorese.
( did I spell that correctly? ) when with non-sailing friends...I try to be a good host.

I can single-hand my vessel so it's not much of an issue. If someone wants to learn I'll teach em. If they don't, I'll speak a language they understand.

In my opinion, the most valuable person on my boat is the person who can hold a course.
My 12 year old niece can hold a compass course better than most people, I've taught.
And better than my auto-pilot. That frees me up to do everything else...no special language is needed for her to steer in open water.
 
#25 ·
I actually think it's a good idea to use all the nautical terms. In the beginning I used them because it was fun, but now I realize that they have real utility because of their precision. It's exactly the same in medicine, the terms are many and complex but the precision is useful.

"I'm looking at a rash that is 6cm by 4cm located at the right mid-clavicular line at about the level of the 7th rib and is non-confluent mixed erythematous macular and vesicular lesions with clear fluid in the vesicles on a base of normal appearing skin." Sounds like gibberish but it's as good as a photograph over the phone! :D

Same thing with the lines, using the correct term in a SNAFU can make all the difference.

The only problem with teaching my wife all the terms, is that I now have to watch my usage really carefully. If I say, "Lets hang a flag halyard from the stay." I might get a response like, "Ummm.... isn't that a shroud?" I guess that's what I get for "teaching" my wife (who speaks 7 languages and has an applied linguistics master's degree) the nautical language. :rolleyes:

MedSailor

JSnaulty I've been on a mission to find the longest word in medicine. Ever come across one longer than Esophagogastroduodenoscopy? I find it funny that EGD is precise but has only one fewer syllable than "Stick a camera down the throat and look in the stomach".
 
#26 ·
Great post. It's not boat snobbery or being too precise. Just as in any field or activity, knowing what to call a thing is important for communication. We start learning at an early age to start asking for a cookie instead of pointing at it. Denny's menus notwithstanding.

Just as in any activity or field, terminology is important. In my field of science/medicine the terminology is much more of a hurdle than learning the parts of a boat, but no less potentially life threatening in certain situations. Knowing your H2O from H2O2 is a simplistic example. It is a balance, not a scale. They are shrouds not mast wires. Hemostats not tweezers. Port not left. Correct use of language is how we clearly and concisely convey ideas and results. I am sure you could apply similar examples from accounting or electrical professions. It just matters.

I am newish to sailing, and try hard to use correct terminology. I find that teaching others on my boat is one of the best ways for me to learn. I don't make a big deal of making the passengers on my boat use the terms, I just start talking and pointing and let them make their own translations. If they want to participate they will learn, if they want to sit in the cockpit the whole time they won't. I have found it is more fun to sail with those that do want to learn and they get invited back more often than those that don't.

As far as spelling goes on the forums, I give partial credit. It is the internet after all. We are typing these posts with our thumbs on our phones, in between calls at work, and other distracting situations into a tiny box in the middle of a screen. Mistakes happen.

One last thing: I think the "leward" pronunciation of "leeward" is archaic and unnecessarily confusing.
 
#29 ·
SBS eats, shoots, and leaves.
 
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#30 ·
Using perfect grammar and proofreading everything on a forum board like this is not the objective of most people. While correct spelling and grammar should always be a goal, they are MUCH more difficult for some than for others. IMO, good/bad spelling is genetic and has little to do with "intelligence." I would like to be able to comment on blatant, third grade misuse of grammar for the benefit of the poster who uses something like "irregardless" but do not because I don't want to embarrass anyone. (I once had a principal who used this word on a regular basis as the staff rolled their eyes and never let on. I made sure, on an observation day, that the lesson was about the word "irregardless.":)

As far as sailing terminology goes, as in any endeavor, knowing the lingo is essential, period. Not only that, but if you want to appear to be competent to others in any field, mastery of the language needs to be at the top of your priorities. A mathematician may be a lousy grammarian but he/she better know the language of integral calculus.
 
#55 ·
I would like to be able to comment on blatant, third grade misuse of grammar for the benefit of the poster who uses something like "irregardless" but do not because I don't want to embarrass anyone. (I once had a principal who used this word on a regular basis as the staff rolled their eyes and never let on. I made sure, on an observation day, that the lesson was about the word "irregardless.":)
I'll rant too...

You mean like Presidents of countries who have their finger on the big red button and still call it Nuk-U-Lur..:) The word is Nu-cle-ar....;) There should be an amendment that mandates a President of a country with Nu-cle-ar power has to pronounce the word correctly.....

Another word that really gets under my skin is, probly or prolly. Prolly is not a word and makes one sound dumber than a pound of gator dung. Sadly I know Harvard grads who use it regularly.....

Real-A-Tor is another one that dives me nuts. It is REAL-TOR there is no extra "A" in that word...

Exscape or expecially or expresso they are escape, especially and espresso there is no X in there.

Supposebly vs. supposedly..

Not fedral it's federal...

To aks a question is not the same as to ask a question....

It is a MOOT point not a MUTE point....

We were "keeling over"............. You mean heeling over?

The boat was floundering.. Actually flounder is a fish, it was foundering.....

RPM's I see this every day on forums. It is revolutions per minute not revolutions per minutes. RPM not RPM's is the correct use....

I am far from a great speller and not very careful with my grammatical use on forums but if I catch the mistakes I do try and change them...
 
#31 ·
We don't have to go that far back even.

For this generation of kids growing up with digital watches and clocks...how do we tell them to wrap the sheet " clockwise" around the winch without first explaining what the hands of a clock are. Righty-tighty..might become a new nautical term...

Imagine if every doctor or dentist required you to know the proper terminology before they treated you. Doc..this tooth hurts....is no longer allowed.
instead, you must say Lateral Incisor or go to the back of the line...

If I insisted on proper terminology on my boat, I'd single-hand a lot more than I do already.

That said, it's great to be out with other sailors with whom I can simply say, Prepare for a port side tie-up, and everything gets done.

I'll actually settle for someone who trims the sails..when you fall off without being asked.
The biggest hurdle I find with novices and "some" sailors alike..is the lack of anticipation of what is coming next, that's another thread.
 
#34 ·
Imagine if every doctor or dentist required you to know the proper terminology before they treated you. Doc..this tooth hurts....is no longer allowed.
instead, you must say Lateral Incisor or go to the back of the line...
Instead of imagining a dental patient, imagine a dental assistant who doesn't know the terminology. I make a distinction between "crew" and "guests." Most of my crew start out knowing next to nothing, but we use proper terminology and they simply have to learn. Guests are not subjected to this so much. Once the crew learn the proper terminology, they can use it on any boat - they don't have to learn a new "language" for each skipper they sail with. In my case, I can say "prepare for a portside-to" and the crew know what to do.
 
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