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New guy with dumb questions.

4K views 31 replies 18 participants last post by  SloopJonB 
#1 · (Edited)
I've done quite a bit of research on sailng recently, and a few things have left me with more questions than answers. Most involve maintaining them; I've owned a variety of powerboats since I was a teen, and the obvious differences have me wondering. So here we go, noob questions.

Edit: Dumb questions 1&2 answered. New dumb question on page 3!


1. In my reading there seems to be a fair amount of hate directed towards older boats, mostly about hull rot. A few things I've read point towards older boats being complete junk that's about to fall apart and will kill you within 15 minutes or cost billions of dollars to fix. I've never kept a boat in the water full time, but this doesn't seem to be as much of a concern from the power crowd. The attitude there seems to be more along the lines of paint the bottom, change the zincs and don't worry about it. :confused:

2. This is a really stupid question that I can't find an answer for. It's so stupid, I deleted what I typed about three times now. Mast climbing. How does that little pulley support a person? And how small of a boat can you climb? I've read discussions about weight and balance (that I understand because I'm a pilot, but I don't understand because everyone is guessing where the CG really is) For instance I've been reading a lot about the catalina 27, as I've seen a few of these for sale in my area. Could one climb the mast on that?


Ok dumb question time over, will have more soon I'm sure.
 
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#2 ·
There are no dumb questions.

The answer to both of your questions is, "It depends."
In fact the answer to most sailing questions is, "It depends."

Some old boats are waterlogged pieces of flotsam- sailboats have some unique issues that power boats don't have like lots of opening sin the deck for water to leak in- around chainplates, mast, etc. which can cause a deck to get waterlogged, the mast step to rot out , etc. Having said that, the vast majority of sailboats in North America are more than 25 years old and are actively used.

Can you go to the top of the mast on a Cat 27? How big are you, how strong are the halyards, how strong is your winchman? Yes, it's possible for the right person... but check your equipment carefully and have a safety line. The only thing worse than having to go up the mast is only going most of the way up the mast.
 
#31 ·
There are no dumb questions.

Exactly, that's why we HAVE questions. ;)

The answer to both of your questions is, "It depends."

In fact the answer to most sailing questions is, "It depends."

Can you go to the top of the mast on a Cat 27? How big are you, how strong are the halyards, how strong is your winchman? Yes, it's possible for the right person... but check your equipment carefully and have a safety line. The only thing worse than having to go up the mast is only going most of the way up the mast.
I went up the mast of my quarter tonner - a tender 4300 Lb 26 footer - several times. The mast was 33' and I weighed 220 - do the math - that's over 7000 Ft/Lbs of potential torque. A very hot car might have 400 - 500 Ft/Lbs available.

As long as the boat stays vertical there is no torque effect but get a little bit of heel on and you very quickly get a gut feel for the term "tender". :D

I wouldn't climb the mast on any boat that displaced less than a couple of tons and more is better. A Cat 27 is over 3 tons, so no problem if things are in shape.

Get a good bosun's chair, rig a safety line (a spare halyard), I like to have a waist line around the mast as well, to prevent swinging out and don't do it on dry land - you can develop enough torque to knock a boat off its stands if anything goes wrong.
 
#3 ·
I don't think there is hate toward older boats. I think a lot of posts are trying to warn people about the time and economics of boat ownership. Prior to being a 'Good Old Boat' owner I did not understand the time and money involved in making a boat safe and comfortable to sail. (I have had 2 boats, and continue to be schooled).
 
#4 ·
1. How old is and "old boat"? Are you referring to wood hulls? Unless you are an independently wealthy romantic, or a shipwright don't even think about a wooden hull. But you mentioned a Cat 27, so I am assuming you meant a fiberglass hull. From what I know, or have read on the internet which is the same thing, hull rot is not really a problem with a full fiberglass hull. If the hull is cored, meaning has a wood core, then there could be problems. Decks are usually balsa cored and if there are leaks, then that is trouble.

2. The halyards and sheaves (pulleys) hold some pretty high tensions in certain conditions and can usually support a person. But, again, what BLJ said. It depends on your weight, the condition of your halyard, the size of the boat, the experience of the person helping you. If you don't have to do it, don't. I haven't had to do it in the 8 months I have owned my boat. Hopefully by the time you do you will have enough experience to understand whether it is safe on YOUR boat with YOUR crew and helpers. Not a dumb question at all, but an odd first question about sailboating.
 
#6 ·
There are no dumb questions. But, stick around SN long enough and you'll get plenty of dumb answers.;)
 
#8 ·
Actually there are a lot of similarities between maintaining a power boat and a sailboat. Lots of older power boats have transom rot problems just like many older sailboats have deck problems. If you think repowering a sailboat is pricey proposition, just see what it takes to repower a power boat. If you are handy and can do most of the maintenance and upgrading yourself, a well maintained older sailboat can be a great deal.
 
#11 ·
Do you really want to climb the mast? Are you planning on doing it often? On small boats with deck stepped masts (in other words the mast doesn't go through the deck to the inside of the boat) it is usually easier to take the mast down to work on it then hang there in mid air. On bigger boats - and keel stepped masts - it may be easier to climb (e.g. be winched up - which is not an easy thing if you are a typical adult male for the guy on the winch - a lot of us use the anchor windless for power.) For those of us who single hand and do offshore sailing a frequent solution is to install steps on the mast or use a climber (basically a device that allows you to haul yourself up) in case something goes wrong when you are at sea that you have to fix. Or just to go up and sit on the spreaders to enjoy the view.

With respect to older boats - go down to the FL Keys - you will find hundreds (I am sorry to say) abandoned fiberglass boats that go back to the early seventies.
 
#12 ·
A 27-foot boat is usually right at the cusp of the mast climbing verses mast lowering tradeoff. Much smaller and the boat gets too "tippy" with someone near the top of the mast. Much larger and raising/lowering the mast can be a real chore (and somewhat dangerous to boot). If you decide to climb the mast be very very careful. The fall is no big deal, but that sudden stop at the end is a real *****. If you decide to lower the mast be very very careful. Everything has to be rigged properly, and you really need to do everything in just the right sequence once you get up to that size of a boat/mast. Screwing up during the mast raising/lowering is probably less likely to result in serious injury than falling from the mast, but it is very likely to rip a hole (or holes) in the deck if the mast topples over to the side.
 
#14 ·
Thanks for the quick replies....

Yes, I'm referring to fiberglass boats. And while I may have dumb questions, I'm smart enough to stay away from wood boats ;)

It just got to the point where some of the stuff I was reading made it seem like every boat out there that was older than 10 years old was absolute junk... I've mostly owned older boats myself and have had zero issues with hulls. Then again I've never kept a boat in full time. Just wondering why I never heard these lamentations before....

And the mast thing is a funny question, but I've broken just about anything on a boat that can be broken, and I've repaired quite a few things on (and IN) the water. But when there's something hanging out 40 feet in the air I couldn't happen to wonder "well what happens if something up there breaks?"
 
#15 ·
I'm not sure what forums you are reading, but my overall impression of sailnet....there's a lot of us with older boats here and I don't recall any "old boat bashing".
My boat is an '87 and I would guess, the typical sailnetter boat is in the 10-20 year range. Obviously some are newer and some are older and some, a lot older.
 
#20 ·
I think you've received several good answers to your good questions.

Hull rot, is probably better phrased as a wet core layer between fiberglass. It can be an issue and you don't want a boat that has it. Certainly, not all do.

If the rigging is in good shape, it is taking a much larger load than you would put on it, so up you go. Despite the size of the boat, going up a mast is dangerous and you should follow good safety procedures. Then, when you get there, its a real pain to do any work. Dropping the mast is a much safer and much easier way to work, if practical.

Why don't you hear and concern over condition from power boaters? I have some good answers that will wait until you are fully indoctrinated. :) However, sailboats are often used in more challenging conditions and perhaps their owners are that much more focused on condition. Secretly, every sailboat owner daydreams about circumnavigating with their boat.
 
#23 ·
Ok, one more dumb question. Maybe this one isn't as dumb, but I already had the thread going so whatever. :p

Trying to figure up yearly costs for a leave in. All my other boats have lived on trailers, so this is another new one to me.

Boat would be 27-30', I'd keep it at Deltaville, VA.

Slip rental - Lowest I've found online is about $160/month and I know there's cheaper. $2K/year
Haul for a week: $300
DIY bottom painting: $300
Misc yearly maint: $1500'

This comes to $4100 a year, or 3401/ month less than a lot of people's car payments!! This is not my top dollar, and does not include things like buying gadgets, misc upgrades, etc. I've never paid anyone to work on any of my boats before, ever, and I don't plan to change that, so that will save me a great deal of money. This just seems a bit lower than I was expecting, any input?
 
#27 ·
Liability only should be $150/year or less, nothing if covered by homeowners policy (have to check into that.) I don't finance toys.

I don't plan on using much fuel, the whole reason why I'm going into this hobby.

Dockside incidentals - ?

Would like some insight in to "sail repair/replacement" costs. Something I've not had to deal with.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Great used sails out there. Never had new sails myself. That little pully thing isn't holding you. You want to go up on the hallyard that is running though the sheaves. I basically drapes over the top of the mast. I"ve rerigged a lot of catalinas that size in Miami while keeping the mast up and changing one wire at a time. My boat was built in 1965 and I bet if I T-bone a new Catalina or Hunter I would go through it. Maybe I'll try it. ( Kind of kidding) Those smaller masts, I just hoist up my chair and climb up into it. 1,2,3 shimmy's I'm standing on th spreader base's, 4,5,6 and 1/2, I'm in the chair.
 
#29 ·
Actually, I don't think your numbers are that far off. That is assuming the boat you buy has a decent engine, decent sails, and no significant structural issues. Just plan on every so often needing to spring for a major item like a new sail, replacing all the running or standing rigging, etc.
 
#30 ·
If you want to easily climb your mast there is an safer easier alternative to having someone winch you up.
Go to a rock climbing store and have them set you up with a static line, some assenders and a comfortable harness.
That way you have complete control. Use the halyard to hoist up the static line then tie the halyard off. Now use the assenders and harness to climb the static line.
You are in complete control and the shive (pulley) at the top of the mast is being used for support only not actually rolling.
It is a good idea to have a helper down below.
As you go up trail a light line below to the deck. That way your helper can tie on any tools or parts you forget.
I used a winch to hoist up a 200lb guy to the top of a 70' mast I thought I was going to die and he was helping as much as he could.
 
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