The Infamous Leeward Shrouds - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree27Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-31-2012
flyingjib's Avatar
1979 C&C 30 MK1
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Annapolis
Posts: 107
Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 3
flyingjib is on a distinguished road
The Infamous Leeward Shrouds

Hello Gurus,

I was out sailing the other day and I noticed my leeward shrouds were pretty much flopping around all over the place. We had 15 knots of wind going at the time and she was healing pretty good. I tried to tension them at the dock using my loos gauge. I brought them up to 13% of breaking strength but when I went out again they were still flopping around. I know this subject has come up again and again but here is my delima:

I have a 33 year old C&C 30 MK1 which I adore. Should I really bother with tightening them up more while tacking? Considering I'm at 13% right now, I imagine I would have to bring the tension to near 20% to make the flopping stop. She is been a great boat to me and I just feel like that's way too much stress on the hull, rigging, and everything else. I'm not a racer and I don't mind not having a finely tuned rig. Can I just use a bungee cord to reduce the shock loading the way I have seen done by some cat folks? Do you consider this a major safety concern requiring immediate attention?

Any advise is greatly appreciated.
Aaron

*** Update *** 08/06/2012

(Video was taken on a 15+ knots wind with gusts up to 25+)

Last edited by flyingjib; 08-06-2012 at 11:46 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 07-31-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Orleans Louisiana
Posts: 2,071
Thanks: 6
Thanked 54 Times in 51 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Stumble is on a distinguished road
Re: The Infamous Leeward Shrouds

Rig tune has nothing to do with the leeward shrouds, unless you have diamond stays or jumpers.

Let them flop, just secure the cotter pins.
__________________
Greg Rubin
Attorney
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 07-31-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 2,560
Thanks: 3
Thanked 20 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 13
Sailormon6 will become famous soon enough
Re: The Infamous Leeward Shrouds

Did you ever see a dog take off running at full speed until he got to the end of his leash, and it jerked him off his feet to a sudden stop? Overly loose shrouds are like that leash, that is just long enough to let the dog get to full speed before it jerks him up short. I have sailed on boats that had shrouds so loose that the whole rig banged loudly in a chop, as the rig slammed back and forth. That's hard on the cables and hard on the connections.

I don't use a Loos gauge to tension my stays. For general daysailing and cruising, I want the mast erect and in column, and raked aft just enough to produce a light but adequate weather helm. When the mast is oriented approximately correctly in those respects, I snug each of the stays and shrouds, alternatively, and by an equal number of turns, just enough to take the slack out of them. Then I sail the boat in 10-15 kt winds, and watch the shrouds and stays. If the leeward cables go slack enough to "sway in the breeze," I tighten them alternatively and by an equal number of turns, until the leeward cables just relax in 10-15 kt winds, but don't sway loosely. In short, I want them just taut enough to hold the mast erect and in column and to restrain the mast from moving about excessively, and no more.

Tuning a sailboat rig isn't like tuning a guitar, where you want each string to vibrate at a specific frequency, to produce a specific sound, and that's why I see no need to use a Loos gauge. Your objective is simply to hold the rig erect and in column, which maximizes it's strength, to prevent it from moving excessively in a seaway, and to provide a proper support for your sails. If you adjust the cables with just enough tension (and no more) to accomplish those objectives, then the cables won't be so taut as to overly stress the rigging and chainplates. A Loos gauge is just one way of approximating the correct amount of tension.

Of course you can fine tune the rig for racing, or for sailing in light air, etc, but this question is only about basic tensioning, and not sail shaping.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 07-31-2012
DivingOtter's Avatar
Otter
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toms River NJ
Posts: 183
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 3
DivingOtter is on a distinguished road
Re: The Infamous Leeward Shrouds

I had the same problem. Shock loading for rigging is a bad game to play.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 07-31-2012
BubbleheadMd's Avatar
Chastened
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Edgewater/Annapolis
Posts: 3,032
Thanks: 1
Thanked 60 Times in 56 Posts
Rep Power: 6
BubbleheadMd will become famous soon enough
Send a message via Yahoo to BubbleheadMd
Re: The Infamous Leeward Shrouds

Does it do this equally on each tack?

Have someone drive, while you go on deck and sight up the mast. Is it straight and true, or is the tip falling off to leeward? If it is, you are at risk of a dismasting.

At the dock, take the jib halyard and take the shackle to a stanchion base on the port side. Now take it to the starboard side stanchion base. Does the halyard reach to the exact same point? If not, your rig is not symmetrical, and so it's not equally loaded.

From the photos I can see, you have a single lower shroud on each side, and a single upper shroud. This shouldn't be too difficult to tune.
flyingjib likes this.
__________________
S/V Old Shoes
1973 Pearson 30 #255
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 07-31-2012
RobGallagher's Avatar
HANUMAN
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Noank, Connecticut, USA
Posts: 1,330
Thanks: 7
Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Rep Power: 14
RobGallagher is on a distinguished road
Re: The Infamous Leeward Shrouds

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingjib View Post
Hello Gurus,

I was out sailing the other day and I noticed my leeward shrouds were pretty much flopping around all over the place. We had 15 knots of wind going at the time and she was healing pretty good. I tried to tension them at the dock using my loos gauge. I brought them up to 13% of breaking strength but when I went out again they were still flopping around. I know this subject has come up again and again but here is my delima:

I have a 33 year old C&C 30 MK1 which I adore. Should I really bother with tightening them up more while tacking? Considering I'm at 13% right now, I imagine I would have to bring the tension to near 20% to make the flopping stop. She is been a great boat to me and I just feel like that's way too much stress on the hull, rigging, and everything else. I'm not a racer and I don't mind not having a finely tuned rig. Can I just use a bungee cord to reduce the shock loading the way I have seen done by some cat folks? Do you consider this a major safety concern requiring immediate attention?

Any advise is greatly appreciated.
Aaron
I used to own a 30MKI. The leeward shrouds are pretty loose when healed and beating in heavier air. Just be sure they are tuned properly on both tacks, check your tabs and chain plates as it's an older boat and you should be fine. It's never a bad idea to hire a rigger for an hour or so to inspect your rigging every few years.

The main on your boat is fairly small compared to more modern rigs. You have a very stout mast being held up by oversized wire on a well built boat. You are probably sailing with a large headsail so having some bend in the mast might help a bit.
flyingjib likes this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 07-31-2012
flyingjib's Avatar
1979 C&C 30 MK1
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Annapolis
Posts: 107
Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 3
flyingjib is on a distinguished road
Re: The Infamous Leeward Shrouds

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleheadMd View Post
Does it do this equally on each tack?

Have someone drive, while you go on deck and sight up the mast. Is it straight and true, or is the tip falling off to leeward? If it is, you are at risk of a dismasting.

At the dock, take the jib halyard and take the shackle to a stanchion base on the port side. Now take it to the starboard side stanchion base. Does the halyard reach to the exact same point? If not, your rig is not symmetrical, and so it's not equally loaded.

From the photos I can see, you have a single lower shroud on each side, and a single upper shroud. This shouldn't be too difficult to tune.
It does it pretty much equally on each tack.

Also, I have used a long tape measure which I pulled up with my Halyard and measured the distance to each chain plate. They are equal.

The mast does look straight and I haven't seen any noticeable bend.

I only have a single upper and lower shrouds. They're both 1/4" 1/19 wire.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 07-31-2012
BubbleheadMd's Avatar
Chastened
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Edgewater/Annapolis
Posts: 3,032
Thanks: 1
Thanked 60 Times in 56 Posts
Rep Power: 6
BubbleheadMd will become famous soon enough
Send a message via Yahoo to BubbleheadMd
Re: The Infamous Leeward Shrouds

Doesn't sound like there's a real problem here then. You were sailing in a decent breeze with a large headsail, so you got some slack in the lowers.

I notice you're in the Annapolis area. We'll have to link up sometime for a drink. There's a C&C 30 named "Yes" that sails in my river, and those guys really clean up in the Wednesday night races. Nice boat.
flyingjib likes this.
__________________
S/V Old Shoes
1973 Pearson 30 #255
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 07-31-2012
flyingjib's Avatar
1979 C&C 30 MK1
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Annapolis
Posts: 107
Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 3
flyingjib is on a distinguished road
Re: The Infamous Leeward Shrouds

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleheadMd View Post
Doesn't sound like there's a real problem here then. You were sailing in a decent breeze with a large headsail, so you got some slack in the lowers.

I notice you're in the Annapolis area. We'll have to link up sometime for a drink. There's a C&C 30 named "Yes" that sails in my river, and those guys really clean up in the Wednesday night races. Nice boat.
It would be great to meet up for a drink. I keep my boat in Back Creek around Jabin's...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 07-31-2012
flyingjib's Avatar
1979 C&C 30 MK1
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Annapolis
Posts: 107
Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 3
flyingjib is on a distinguished road
Re: The Infamous Leeward Shrouds

Well... I was looking more carefully at the mast collar today and I noticed mast wedges are only placed in fore and aft of the mast. There are no wedges supporting the sides. Could lack of proper mast wedges cause some of the problem I'm having?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Tags
loose shrouds old boat

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Loose leeward shrouds? Stearmandriver General Discussion (sailing related) 29 10-13-2011 08:18 PM
Why is the leeward boat stand on? davidpm General Discussion (sailing related) 13 07-15-2009 08:01 PM
Tightening leeward shrouds while sailing pomerantz Pacific Seacraft 12 01-05-2009 04:05 PM
Lugger Leeward 16.... windship Boat Review and Purchase Forum 5 09-05-2006 05:59 PM
rounding leeward jrwright General Discussion (sailing related) 1 05-23-2004 07:49 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:43 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.