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  #51  
Old 08-13-2012
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Re: Nuclear s(n)ubs

I suppose I'm missing where the conflict arises.

The regulation is pretty clear. " Keep at least 100 yards away from a naval Vessel"
( it's a football field) " Operate at slow speed within 500 yards". Since sailboats operate at relatively slow speed anyway, it shouldn't be a monumental burden that infringes on ones civil rights to keep 100 yeards away from a submarine in open water.
( unless you just happen to find yourself in a narrow channel with one)

What's more to discuss over the VHF after the Sub broadcasts the regulation over the radio? If you operate a vessel in the vicinity of a naval installation and don't know the regulation ( that's been on the books for some time now) Whose fault is that?
Who's not showing respect ?

If you can't figure out how to keep 100 yards away from a massive ship, it might be time to take up a new hobby.

The regulation says Keep Clear. What's to think about?
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Last edited by Tempest; 08-13-2012 at 10:12 AM.
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  #52  
Old 08-13-2012
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Re: Nuclear s(n)ubs

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwindward View Post
In my mind, I'd think everyone would be disturbed to see military intimidation in domestic waters, yet even in this thread, some people seem to support it.
Aaron, I understand and agree with the spirit of your post. But I do not agree that a sub making its way to sea without talking on the radio is an example of intimidation. It simply is not necessary to their mission. No fact presented in this thread has suggested that a hazard was created by the sub not engaging in a two-way conversation on the radio.

As for the conduct of U.S. warships in general, I can think of another example of a special mission with special rules: the way the President is moved around in his motorcade. I get to witness this periodically, and it's pretty clear that the only option available to a bystander is to stand back and watch the show, even though that man "works for us." I'm not going to get much communication from anyone in the long line of vehicles, and even a cop standing on the corner in support of this movement is not going to engage me in chit-chat.

I'd put the movement of a ballistic missile submarine in the same category as the movement of the President in terms of its focus on accomplishing a particular purpose without distraction or interference.
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  #53  
Old 08-13-2012
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Re: Nuclear s(n)ubs

scratchee,
while radio silence may be an operations security issue, this policy is also arguably a public relations fiasco. Consider how much "good will" is worth. Suppose there's a six year old on the sailboat. They go to school and say "my daddy let me talk to a man on a SUBMARINE! That was way cool!"

Uh, yes, there's some value in that and pretending to be deaf or pre-occupied while in plain sight on the surface...Not to much.

Obviously the USN needs to learn from the old USSR and put a Party Representative aka Political Officer aboard each boat, to deal with political issues.

Doesn't cost a lot to wave and say hello. No real down side to it.
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Nuclear s(n)ubs

In theory the use of VHF would help. In fact the great majority of small boaters don't monitor VHF, so it probably is assessed by many commercial and military vessels as of limited value.
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Old 08-13-2012
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Re: Nuclear s(n)ubs

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
while radio silence may be an operations security issue, this policy is also arguably a public relations fiasco. Consider how much "good will" is worth. Suppose there's a six year old on the sailboat. They go to school and say "my daddy let me talk to a man on a SUBMARINE! That was way cool!"

Uh, yes, there's some value in that and pretending to be deaf or pre-occupied while in plain sight on the surface...Not to much.

Obviously the USN needs to learn from the old USSR and put a Party Representative aka Political Officer aboard each boat, to deal with political issues.

Doesn't cost a lot to wave and say hello. No real down side to it.
hellosailor:

If you want a submarine sailor to say hellosailor to a six year old then call the public affairs office at base close to you and arrange a tour of a boat. They give tours every week. You might tag along and meet some of the motivated patriots that man them. You'll be surprised to find that the caricatures of them that some are fond of posting on sailnet only exist in the minds of the posters.

Sure every once in a while one of them screws up. Been that way since Eden (if you believe in that sort of thing) or since we slithered out of the primordial ooze (if you believe in that sort of thing). But these young people who grew up in Iowa and New Jersey and Georgia and So. Central LA don't need political officers. They take an oath they believe in and they work longer hours...harder...and more efficiently...than you can imagine unless you have seen them.

Arrogant? Nah. Busy? Yep. Do they know they work for the public? Yep. Are they good stewards of the resources they are given? Yep.

They do dangerous duty every minute of the day in port and at sea. Give them their due.
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Re: Nuclear s(n)ubs

The people on these ships are working. If they're coming home. They probably haven't seen their families in months. If they are headed out they just left their families on the dock. I'm quite willing to give them all the room they need. The navy provides ample opportunities for public relations.
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  #57  
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Re: Nuclear s(n)ubs

I give them their due, and I'm sure that with the Navy's new policies of "more ships less bunks" they are sometimes very busy, just like the rest of the world.

But if someone on that boat can't take the time to say hello, I'm be damned afraid to ask just how shorthanded they are, in case they had a REAL problem and needed a spare hand to address it.

Booking a tour? Wonderful. A little common courtesy? Priceless. If you respect them, if you love them, if you honor them, then you also should be telling them when they slip up, and how they can be doing better.
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Re: Nuclear s(n)ubs

To me it's not necessary that they say "hello", but that would be nice. It is not good practice to just play a recording over the VHF reminding everyone to stay clear and call it adequate communication. Am I OK in maintaining my heading? Doesn't seem like a difficult question to answer!

While I'm at it, does anyone else have a problem understanding the Coast Guard when they read very fast over the VHF about hazzards or look outs for boats in trouble?
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Re: Nuclear s(n)ubs

Quote:
While I'm at it, does anyone else have a problem understanding the Coast Guard when they read very fast over the VHF about hazzards or look outs for boats in trouble?
Usually, the only way I KNOW it's the Coast Guard, is because I can only make out about one out of every ten words. I've often wondered if they have a class to teach them how to talk so fast.
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  #60  
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Re: Nuclear s(n)ubs

Navy Leadership -- Secretary of the Navy

Contact information for the Secretary of the Navy

And the Commandant of the Coast Guard

U. S. Coast Guard Senior Leadership
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