Knapps Narrows Incident - Post Mortem - Page 3

JonEisberg · #21 08-17-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurphny

One way, requiring only one line, that someone mentioned in a previous thread may have worked: nose up with a bow spring already on the bow cleat, a loop on the bitter end with length about half the boat's length.

I’d caution against EVER using a spring line from a bow cleat on anything other than a twin-screw powerboat, I’ve never known that to accomplish anything but pulling the bow of a sailboat into the dock very sharply. In the situation the OP described, with a following current, that only would have exacerbated the loss of control and difficulty of keeping the boat parallel to the dock…

In general, I don’t even like the practice of handing off the bow line first to someone on the dock when coming along a face dock, in any situation other than in the most placid conditions… So often, the first thing they will do with it, is pull the bow in towards the dock in an effort to “assist”, which of course usually turns out to accomplish the opposite… Far better and safer in most cases to have a spring line from a midship cleat be the first line made fast to the dock…

One of my biggest pet peeves about most production boats, is the typically poor placement of midship cleats. Invariably, they are placed too far forward for effective use of springing the boat into the dock, and tend to pull the bow in instead when the spring line is snatched up. On most boats, the best placement will usually be back in the vicinity of Station 6 or 7, and sailors would do well to figure out the point at which leading a spring aft from will keep the boat straight/parallel to the dock when easing forward on it. Then, the placement of an additional chock, or snatch block or similar, should be employed to lead the spring line from there…

Capt.aaron · #22 08-17-2012

The guy was obviously waving and motioning for you not to approach. Wind and current aside, If someone is motioning to stay away with everything they have, stay away. If some one say's duck... I duck, I don't ask why. If I'm tying my shoe and I hear stop... I stop. It could have been a diver in the water, or debris. I would of come about, held a postion and called the office and ask why the doofus on the dock was jumping and waving at me. Your approach with the elements has been discussed but the mistake was approaching at all.

aa3jy · #23 08-17-2012

I usually call ahead about 20 mins. out from the Knapp Narrows entrance to make sure reservations are still available also to be informed if the dock hand is listening on any particular marine freq. I also have a stern anchor at the ready which I have used once while in the holding pattern at Kent Narrows when the engine died...

smurphny · #24 08-17-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonEisberg

I’d caution against EVER using a spring line from a bow cleat on anything other than a twin-screw powerboat, I’ve never known that to accomplish anything but pulling the bow of a sailboat into the dock very sharply. In the situation the OP described, with a following current, that only would have exacerbated the loss of control and difficulty of keeping the boat parallel to the dock…

In general, I don’t even like the practice of handing off the bow line first to someone on the dock when coming along a face dock, in any situation other than in the most placid conditions… So often, the first thing they will do with it, is pull the bow in towards the dock in an effort to “assist”, which of course usually turns out to accomplish the opposite… Far better and safer in most cases to have a spring line from a midship cleat be the first line made fast to the dock…

One of my biggest pet peeves about most production boats, is the typically poor placement of midship cleats. Invariably, they are placed too far forward for effective use of springing the boat into the dock, and tend to pull the bow in instead when the spring line is snatched up. On most boats, the best placement will usually be back in the vicinity of Station 6 or 7, and sailors would do well to figure out the point at which leading a spring aft from will keep the boat straight/parallel to the dock when easing forward on it. Then, the placement of an additional chock, or snatch block or similar, should be employed to lead the spring line from there…

Don't you think that if the boat came alongside INTO the current and wind, a spring from bow to cleat with enough scope to reach amidships, the helm over to starboard with engine in gear just enough to keep from slipping back, and the help of current would keep the bow from angling in at too sharp an angle. I think it might work. It would be a balancing act for sure to get the motor idling at just the right rpm and I know exactly what you're saying but this may have been a way to at least get the boat in with no assist. There are no real good alternatives going with current and wind. Attaching a single spring to a midship cleat going into current would surely allow current to throw the bow out and wrench the stern into the dock, a real disaster.

I had a situation like this a couple of years ago where there was no room to swing into the current and wind. It was at a fixed dock with pilings to deal with. There was no quick jumping off with lines in hand because the dock was about 3' higher than the boat. Luckily the gas dock attendant was able and willing to handle lines. If he was not there I would not have even attempted it. Gave him a good tip.

I have no midship cleat and it IS a PITA when running springs. I wind up using the little inner jib block for a tie-off point. I actually bought two of those flush pop-up cleats but they're so deep and would protrude so far into the cabin that I probably won't install them. I'm also not sure they would not leak either. After recoring the decks, I'm loathe to putting holes in it. Putting a standard cleat there would invite lines getting caught. Have been thinking of just putting in a 1/2" high base with bolt holes to which cleats could be bolted onto when needed. I don't like those genoa track cleats.

rwlpatrick · #25 08-17-2012

Aside from the mishap did you like the marina? I am thinking of moving there in the spring.

Dick6969 · #26 08-17-2012

I have found that motoring into the current you have alot more control. Try it sometime I think you will feel the same way.

CapnBones · #27 08-17-2012

I am going to have to agree with Capt.Aaron on this one, if someone is jumping up and down and waving, I would abandon that approach until I knew what was going on, people usually don't act that way for no reason.

On an aside I saw someone disliked Knapps Narrows Marina, I have only stopped there for fuel and the people were nice no complaints. However my experience while staying in Tilghman, and I hate to blow up my spot, but they deserve the credit they are due Tilghman on Chesapeake is a beautiful, clean, well run facility with helpful staff. We stayed there during the heatwave the week after the 4th (because they had a pool) but for the price amenities and service I would go there anytime. No current and all floating docks. Also if you dinghy over to Dogwood Harbor there is a small general store right out the entrance, also run by the nicest people we have met, they even offered to drive us back to the marina (it is a long way if you walk).

flyingjib · #28 08-17-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwlpatrick

Aside from the mishap did you like the marina? I am thinking of moving there in the spring.

PROS:
It's a very nice Marina in a picturesque area. I stayed there for 4 nights. They came over next day and with help of a very nice and sober dock master I was placed back in the original spot. Had a good time. There is a nice pool and bicycles. Breakfast is included in your transient fee ($2 per foot + $7 for single 30 amps). I checked with the service guy on a project I'm working and their prices seemed very reasonable.

CONS:
Very shallow. Floating dock is used primarily by large motor yachts. There is only one restaurant at the bridge now (OK food) the second restaurant is closed. The Tilghman Island Inn has a very nice restaurant but it's super pricey. If you're on their floating dock, you'll be hit by wakes of fishing boats.

flyingjib · #29 08-17-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonEisberg

One of my biggest pet peeves about most production boats, is the typically poor placement of midship cleats. …

I had the same problem with my C&C. No midship cleats at all. So made one by mounting a cleat on a nicely cut piece of polished aluminum bar and bolting it surely to my slotted toe rail. It's been a great lifer saver so far...

flyingjib · #30 08-17-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt.aaron

The guy was obviously waving and motioning for you not to approach. Wind and current aside, If someone is motioning to stay away with everything they have, stay away. If some one say's duck... I duck, I don't ask why. If I'm tying my shoe and I hear stop... I stop. It could have been a diver in the water, or debris. I would of come about, held a postion and called the office and ask why the doofus on the dock was jumping and waving at me. Your approach with the elements has been discussed but the mistake was approaching at all.

You're right. The storm and current rushed me into doing something I wasn't comfortable with. Lesson learned.