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post #21 of 31 Old 09-19-2012
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Re: Alcohol Stove - Non-Pressurized

Hm...is Bioflame available in the US? I can't seem to find reference to it.

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post #22 of 31 Old 09-19-2012
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post #23 of 31 Old 09-19-2012
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Re: Alcohol Stove - Non-Pressurized

Not sure where you are located, but if you're anywhere near the Chesapeake and are interested, I have a 2 burner , alkie stove and oven with the tank out of my '81 Islander - its in near new condition. We don't plan to do much more than grill on the rail in our boat and opted for the space in the galley for a fridge instead - feel free to send a note if you're interested.
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post #24 of 31 Old 09-19-2012
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Re: Alcohol Stove - Non-Pressurized

"How is kerosene safer than alcohol? "
The invisible flame from alcohol is blamed for causing more boating fires than any other single cause, IIRC. Because of the way that alcohol vapors will catch, and the invisible spread once they do catch, it becomes way more dangerous than it might seem to be.
Personally I think unpressurized alcohol is about the same as a Sterno can, a chafing dish heater. I can send out for tea before it will boil the water to make it.

And the stench of kero, "water white cooking grade" or otherwise, makes me seasick.

So if I can't cook with propane, CNG, LPG, whatever, I'll opt for a single-burner butane cooker and just try very hard not to blow myself up with it. Or eat cold food.

Alcohol stove? I'll eat cold food or order take-out.
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post #25 of 31 Old 09-19-2012
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Re: Alcohol Stove - Non-Pressurized

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"How is kerosene safer than alcohol? "
The invisible flame from alcohol is blamed for causing more boating fires than any other single cause, IIRC. Because of the way that alcohol vapors will catch, and the invisible spread once they do catch, it becomes way more dangerous than it might seem to be.
Personally I think unpressurized alcohol is about the same as a Sterno can, a chafing dish heater. I can send out for tea before it will boil the water to make it.

And the stench of kero, "water white cooking grade" or otherwise, makes me seasick.

So if I can't cook with propane, CNG, LPG, whatever, I'll opt for a single-burner butane cooker and just try very hard not to blow myself up with it. Or eat cold food.

Alcohol stove? I'll eat cold food or order take-out.
If your kero stove or oven stinks, you are doing something wrong. Properly vaporized kerosene is odorless.

This is not the case for oil lamps, if you burn kero in them, it has a pretty strong smell. And, of course, there is a 'stench' if you spill the stuff, but that is something I would categorize under 'operator error.

But look at the bright side: if you spill butane (propane, ...), smell is likely to be the least of your worries.
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post #26 of 31 Old 09-19-2012
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Re: Alcohol Stove - Non-Pressurized

"kerosene is odorless. "
Yes, I've heard a number of people including Mercedes shop managers say that. It appears to be said more often by mechanics than biologists, who would suggest that some of us simply have more sensitive noses, and some of us can smell and taste things that others literally cannot. (There are genetic differences.)
Never met anyone who could actually prove that "properly" combusted kero or diesel had no stink.

Sure, any fuel spill can explode. Including kero and diesel. That's what fuels are supposed to do, they explode. Sometimes in a more controlled or more surprising fashion than at other times. The most powerful conventional bombs in existance are ANFO, fuel-air bombs based on, you guessed it, nice safe diesel fuel.

If you want safety, you don't cook on flames. Look at all the home fires started in the kitchen. Boat fires started in the galley. Fuel? Yup, pretty much supposed to explode.
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post #27 of 31 Old 09-19-2012
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Re: Alcohol Stove - Non-Pressurized

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"kerosene is odorless. "
Yes, I've heard a number of people including Mercedes shop managers say that. It appears to be said more often by mechanics than biologists, who would suggest that some of us simply have more sensitive noses, and some of us can smell and taste things that others literally cannot. (There are genetic differences.)
Never met anyone who could actually prove that "properly" combusted kero or diesel had no stink.
OK, I am not aware of a double-blind test either but it seems easy to do such a study (Mainesail???). It is certainly possible that there are genetic differences but I think it is more likely that people compare apples (clean vaporizer operation) with oranges (spilled fuel and/or combustion in a wicked lamp).

All I can say is that I strongly smell my anchor lamp when I use kero in it, but I don't smell my kero stove at all when it is burning.

Quote:
Sure, any fuel spill can explode. Including kero and diesel. That's what fuels are supposed to do, they explode. Sometimes in a more controlled or more surprising fashion than at other times. The most powerful conventional bombs in existance are ANFO, fuel-air bombs based on, you guessed it, nice safe diesel fuel.
That is incorrect. You are right that any FUEL can explode, including kerosene and diesel. Or, for that matter, such things as wheat flour. But not every fuel SPILL can explode. To make diesel or kero explode, you need very specific conditions of heat and pressure that you will never find when you spill it. Like inside a diesel engine or in a fuel bomb. Or inside a medieval flour mill before people understood such things as air-suspended solids and rather attributed mill explosions to the devil that surely must be in such new-fangled devices as wind mills.

You will be faced with a clean-up job if you spill your bag of King Arthur whole-wheat flour. In the case of kero or diesel you will, in addition, experience a petrochemical smell.

But in none of these cases will there be danger of an explosion.
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Last edited by MastUndSchotbruch; 09-19-2012 at 04:54 PM. Reason: nicer word smithing :)
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post #28 of 31 Old 09-19-2012
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Re: Alcohol Stove - Non-Pressurized

So if I can't cook with propane, CNG, LPG, whatever, I'll opt for a single-burner butane cooker and just try very hard not to blow myself up with it. Or eat cold food.

I have a butane cooker and have to admit that i try very hard not to blow myself up everytime I cook. I find with my steamer I can cook for 5 minutes, shut it off for 15 and my dinner is perfectly cooked, I feel like 7 minues is the max you can safely cook on Butane, the smaller diamiter your pot the better
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post #29 of 31 Old 09-19-2012
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Re: Alcohol Stove - Non-Pressurized

Medieval flour mill?

Grain mill explosion under investigation by officials, company

Apparently ConAgra blew up a modern grain mill just two years ago.

By all means, enjoy your kero stove. Some of us have no issues with bottled gasses. Perhaps every kero burner I've met has been improperly adjusted or fueled, and yours in the only one with no odor. Perhaps. And perhaps bottled gasses are always unsafe.

Once you convince me of that, I'll get the USCG to make "flaming cooking appliances" totally illegal on all vessels, as a safety hazard. All of them. Hey, no one needs hot food on a boat.
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Re: Alcohol Stove - Non-Pressurized

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Medieval flour mill?

Grain mill explosion under investigation by officials, company


Apparently ConAgra blew up a modern grain mill just two years ago.
"Investigators found that a poorly trained operator dropped a bowl containing about 2 cups of all purpose flour, leading to the dangerous spill which caused the violent explosion."

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By all means, enjoy your kero stove. Some of us have no issues with bottled gasses. Perhaps every kero burner I've met has been improperly adjusted or fueled, and yours in the only one with no odor. Perhaps.
Yes, perhaps. If that is the case, I won't complain. I don't really care if yours, or someone else's burner stinks as long as mine doesn't.

I don't really care either if someone blows himself up with leaked gas in his bilges, or burns his boat to the waterline with alcohol, as long as it is not close to my boat.
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