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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
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  #21  
Old 09-18-2012
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Re: Sailing into the slip

Tacking a 36' boat in a channel 45' wide is tricky, so we're careful to pick a day when the wind is from the right direction and we have enough crew to drop sails quickly if we need to. We moor at both bow & stern, so gauging the speed and momentum is important. If you're going too fast, the crew has trouble catching the first buoy, and you overshoot the next & run into the boat ahead. If you're going too slowly, you don't make it to the second one. Going in to the gas dock is easier because you have a longer target area. Slips are tougher becauseyou have finite maneuverability. Would love to show a picture, but uploads fail on every attachment I try.
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  #22  
Old 09-18-2012
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Re: Sailing into the slip

Dad hated working on the diesel so I grew up learning to sail into a slip. However, it'd still make me nervous.

My slip is usually a crosswind landing. Prevailing winds mean I'd come in on a run. My plan is to use the jib. I put the motor in neutral several slips away anyway and coast in so I could just roll up the jib when I got close. My boom is long enough to go over and hit other boats as I came in when I'd let the sheet out to luff the sail. I don't want to have to climb over sail on the deck to pick up dock lines either (I single hand a lot). So the main just isn't a good idea for me.

If the wind is from the north, I'm screwed as it's too narrow a channel to tack. I wouldn't even be able to spin her on her keel.
If I have a north wind and the motor craps, I'll call for a tow. I have an outboard motor so I'm just waiting for it to fail on me.

I haven't had to land the Hunter yet without a motor. The Drascombe's motor crapped out on me several times and I've had to sail up to a dock with it. My downwind landing wasn't graceful but the boat, dock, lookie-loos and I were all safe and unscathed.
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  #23  
Old 09-19-2012
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Re: Sailing into the slip

Quote:
Originally Posted by crstophr View Post

I also highly recommend getting comfortable swimming your boat with the rudder if you have a tiller. I can make almost 1kt doing this and that's enough to steer and get back home or make last minute maneuvers while docking.

--Chris
This is key- I do it every time I take her out. I would be useless on a boat with a wheel.
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  #24  
Old 09-19-2012
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Re: Sailing into the slip

I was very furtunate to have a "pull through" slip. I was great. I could sail out and in with little risk of damaging my boat or anyone elses. The trouble for me, however was all of the sailboats under power in the large channel not giving way while I was under sail. I even had one lady scream at me about not using the engine. I replied the engine is the large white things hanging off the metal stick. I expected that behavior from the power boats, but not other sailors.
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Old 09-19-2012
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Re: Sailing into the slip

I second all the recommendations to sail to something like a fuel dock or gas dock.

I've docked under sail a few times. The first was a fuel dock on the outside of a marina in the winter with no other vessels around. The second was a parks dock, again on the outside, again I was the only vessel. The third was the unoccupied end tie in an unfamiliar marina during a small-craft, which was fortunately surrounded by walls that blocked most of the wind... that was the toughest (engine failure).

The last was the guest dock at my own marina, quite long, first thing you pass on the way in after the breakwater, again unoccupied. We had a tailwind and came in under a 110% jib only, and cast off the sheet about three boat lengths away. If we didn't have a tailwind, with a tall breakwater attenuating it, I wouldn't have attempted it but would have anchored outside instead. Which, btw, is what they always did in "the old days".
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Last edited by AdamLein; 09-19-2012 at 02:09 PM.
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  #26  
Old 09-19-2012
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Re: Sailing into the slip

Well, my opinion which is sure to get razed: I don't do it unless it is an emergency. I also don't believe anyone else should that has another option. I am not talking about emergencys. I have had to sail in to the slip (most of us have that have sailed or cruised for very long... mine was a plastic bag int the strainer at night). I also agree with Paul that sailing into a slip versus a mooring ball is much harder. The mooring ball you can always turn into the wind and gauge your approach better and see around better for traffic. I have no issue with sailing onto a mooring ball.

My personal issue with you sailing into and out of the marina is that you may have to tack or jibe down a very narrow fairway. If its just one sailboat and no one else on the water, especially small ones, not the end of the world. You get several sailboats coming in and doing it and throw in a power boat or two, then you have the potential for an issue or damage. And under sail, you cannot stop quickly so you become a liability to others. What about a kid swimming across the fairway and you didn't see them until the last second? I have seen this several times, btw.

This isn't about learning a skill to me. You can practice this in open water and especially good when doing MOB with a floating object. However, when you sail into the slip (esp in a busy marina and narrow channel), you take right of way and everyone else must wait for you to do your thing. And no one in their right mind is going to be sailing into a marina fast unless they are especially good at gell coat repairs. SO you are going to peter-pater at 1-2 knots while the rest of us have to wait for you so we can get out and enjoy the water. And why? Because you enjoy it, want to learn a skill, don't feel like turning on your engine, etc. Frankly, this is one of the things that makes power boaters hate us... and rightfully so.

Sorry. Just my opinion.

Brian
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  #27  
Old 09-19-2012
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Re: Sailing into the slip

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickmerc View Post
...The trouble for me, however was all of the sailboats under power in the large channel not giving way while I was under sail. I even had one lady scream at me about not using the engine. I replied the engine is the large white things hanging off the metal stick...
Hmmm, something strikes me a little odd here. While powerboaters are often clueless, usually fellow sailors are very understanding of any boats under sail. Your reference to "all of the other sailboats under power" makes it sound like you were the only one under sail. And that makes me wonder why this was the case. Is it possible that you were in an area where it was not safe to be under sail power? For instance, it can be dangerous to tack across a crowded channel. This is just speculation, since you have not given enough information.

However, it does raise an interesting aspect of the rules of navigation. Contrary to popular misstatements, vessels under sail do not have right of way. They are usually the stand-on vessel. What's the difference between these two? My understanding is that a stand-on vessel has the right (and the obligation) to maintain his course and speed until he is clear of all obstacles (such as other boats). To me, this rule may prohibit one from tacking through a crowded channel under sail, because in the presence of obstacles you are not allowed to tack, since that requires changing course and speed. So maybe that's why she yelled at you.

Could you provide more details to explain the circumstances that caused everyone but you to be under power?
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  #28  
Old 09-19-2012
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Re: Sailing into the slip

We sail the Schock Harbor 25 into the slip all the time - relatively easy with a smaller boat.
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  #29  
Old 09-19-2012
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Re: Sailing into the slip

Rule 9 - Narrow Channels
(a) (i) A vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway shall keep as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable.

...(b) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway.

Rule 16 - Action by Give-way Vessel

Every vessel which is directed to keep out of the way of another vessel shall, so far as possible, take early and substantial action to keep well clear.

Rule 17- Action by Stand-on Vessel

(a) (i) Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way, the other shall keep her course and speed.

(ii) The latter vessel may however take action to avoid collision by her maneuver alone, as soon as it becomes apparent to her that the vessel required to keep out of the way is not taking appropriate action in compliance with these Rules.

(b) When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision.

(c) A power-driven vessel which takes action in a crossing situation in accordance with subparagraph (a)(ii) of this Rule to avoid collision with another power-driven vessel shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, not alter course to port for a vessel on her own port side.

(d) This Rule does not relieve the give-way vessel of her obligation to keep out of the way.

Rule 18 - Responsibilities Between Vessels

Except where Rules 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require:

(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing;
(iv) a sailing vessel.

(b) A sailing vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing.
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  #30  
Old 09-19-2012
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Re: Sailing into the slip

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
...Rule 17- Action by Stand-on Vessel

(a) (i) Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way, the other shall keep her course and speed...
By my interpretation, this prohibits tacking in a situation where it creates an obstacle for other boats, even if those other boats are under power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
Rule 18 - Responsibilities Between Vessels
...(b) A sailing vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing.
This is why I said that vessels under sail are "usually" (not "always") the stand-on vessel.
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