Is sleeping OK? - Page 5 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree138Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #41  
Old 09-21-2012
casey1999's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: HI
Posts: 2,845
Thanks: 4
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 4
casey1999 is on a distinguished road
Re: Is sleeping OK?

Agree with above post. I travel many high speed undivided single lane roads and more concerned about the other driver falling asleep at the wheel (or just inadvertantly swerving) and running into me than the danger of sailing single handed and dealing with the sleep issue.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #42  
Old 09-21-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,615
Thanks: 0
Thanked 124 Times in 111 Posts
Rep Power: 4
JonEisberg will become famous soon enough
Re: Is sleeping OK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by travlineasy View Post
Like Aaron, I don't advocate sleeping/napping while underway at night--it's just plain foolish. It's risky during the day, but at night it's insane.
Well, call me insane, then - 'cause I do so pretty routinely... (grin)

On any given passage, there are so many variables at play, it's difficult to establish such hard and fast rules... Depending upon your position, or an anticipated change in weather, it can often make far more sense to grab some sleep during the night, if conditions favor that. As James mentions, I generally find napping at night to be a bit more "natural", and as a result more effective and beneficial, than those snatched during the day. Not to mention, I think the wisest course is often simply to go with what feels best at any given time, and go with what your mind and body are telling you, all other things being equal...

Quote:
Originally Posted by travlineasy View Post
As for spotting partly submerged debris at night, even with the best night vision - not a prayer. In 10-foot seas, especially with close wave intervals, you'd be lucky to see a telephone pole at night, let alone have the ability to avoid it during one of those 20-minute naps.
Not sure what your point is, there... Sure, sailing at night always entails some degree of risk, but what's the alternative? Heave-to after dark? In high latitudes where ice might pose a risk, that would certainly be a prudent strategy... But for the normal sort of passagemaking most cruisers undertake, seems to me the only option is to simply accept the risk involved, and take your chances...

Personally, I think one the biggest risks a singlehander can take, is sleeping while under power... That mode is far more likely to dull the senses, and reduce the chances of being alerted to subtle hints of a change in conditions that one wold be more likely to detect while under sail alone...
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #43  
Old 09-21-2012
casey1999's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: HI
Posts: 2,845
Thanks: 4
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 4
casey1999 is on a distinguished road
Re: Is sleeping OK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omatako View Post
Another point, despite the image showing ships in every square inch of the worlds oceans (posted earlier) I sailed with my family from the USA to New Zealand keeping a full-time watch and in 24 days of sailing from San Diego to the Marquesas we saw just one ship and no yachts. And without any communication, the ship diverted his course to go around us.

I would sail that voyage single handed without hesitation.
I think you are right. When flying across the Pacific in many directions I often like to look out the window and look at the sea below. Although I am at 35-40,000 feet I can pick up large ships, or even large motor and sailing yachts and I rarely see any. When you fly 10 hours at 500 mph and only see blue you realize how big the ocean is.

Last edited by casey1999; 09-21-2012 at 06:17 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #44  
Old 09-21-2012
tdw's Avatar
tdw tdw is offline
Super Fuzzy Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 14,468
Thanks: 5
Thanked 68 Times in 63 Posts
Rep Power: 10
tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough
Re: Is sleeping OK?

Seems to me that strict observance of all the rules and regulations is simply incompatible with single handing and in reality probably with double. Indeed in many respects , if not most, we choose to ignore what we in reality think of as tiresome.

Example ... according to local regs I am supposed to wear a PFD whenever I get in my tender and row to shore. Is not going to happen. Simple as that and not the only supposed best practice that I regularly ignore.

So think about it .... you are on watch, its cold wet and miserable and you are hunkered down in the cockpit , under the dodger, for the most part looking aft. Keeping a good watch are you ?

As Andre says, some of us will die doing what we love. Be that sailing, climbing mountains, racing fast cars or bikes. Such it is.
__________________
Andrew B

"Do you think God gets stoned? I think so... Look at the platypus." Robin Williams.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #45  
Old 09-21-2012
Capt.aaron's Avatar
KNOT KNOWN
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Guanaja, Bay Islands, Honduras
Posts: 1,320
Thanks: 1
Thanked 20 Times in 20 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Capt.aaron is on a distinguished road
Re: Is sleeping OK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnBones View Post
Capt.Aaron - I am wondering if you have any of these systems on your boat, radar or AIS?
NO, I have no engine and no gen. I have one solar pannel, a vhf, mast head light, three cabin lights and a hand held gps I turn on twice a day. Every thing else is manual. I used to have a marine radar dectector I bought at a marine flea market, it broke, from lack of use I reckon. Ironically I have 2 radars, ais, and bla bla bla at work on the tug boat. When single handling I rely on gumption and common sense. Before gps I had a radio direction finder and a cheap noon sight sexton.
__________________
" Some are boat wise and some are other wise"

Last edited by Capt.aaron; 09-21-2012 at 07:26 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #46  
Old 09-21-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,615
Thanks: 0
Thanked 124 Times in 111 Posts
Rep Power: 4
JonEisberg will become famous soon enough
Re: Is sleeping OK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.aaron View Post
NO, I have no engine and no gen. I have one solar pannel, a vhf, mast head light, three cabin lights and a hand held gps I turn on twice a day. Every thing else is manual. I used to have a marine radar dectector I bought at a marine flea market, it broke, from lack of use I reckon. Ironically I have 2 radars, ais, and bla bla bla at work on the tug boat. When single handling I rely on gumption and common sense. Before gps I had a radio direction finder and a cheap noon sight sexton.
With the sailing you do between Key West and Guanaja, I'm surprised you haven't sprung for AIS... It's the single biggest boon for the singlehanded offshore sailor today, IMHO, especially sailing a route you do with a pretty heavy concentration of cruise ship and merchant traffic being funneled through the Yucatan Channel...

Standard Horizon makes a very nice VHF with fully integrated AIS for a few hundred bucks... It's a very capable little unit. Of course it has to be integrated to a GPS, so you might have to go with a fixed mount GPS of some sort as well, but I'd still rate that as money very well spent, for the voyaging you do...
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #47  
Old 09-21-2012
Ferretchaser's Avatar
Owned by Velcro
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: On a Boat
Posts: 751
Thanks: 16
Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 4
Ferretchaser is on a distinguished road
Re: Is sleeping OK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by travlineasy View Post
Like Aaron, I don't advocate sleeping/napping while underway at night--it's just plain foolish. It's risky during the day, but at night it's insane.
Gary
Exuse me Gary but in your mind i am one of the insane folks on this planet. If you don't mind me asking, how do you come to this conlusion and how many single handed transats have you got under our belt to come up with an unqualified statement like that ??

Regards

Michael

Ps. Five weeks ago I completed my 16th ( to you insane ) solo trip over the pond

Last edited by Ferretchaser; 09-21-2012 at 09:18 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #48  
Old 09-21-2012
Capt.aaron's Avatar
KNOT KNOWN
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Guanaja, Bay Islands, Honduras
Posts: 1,320
Thanks: 1
Thanked 20 Times in 20 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Capt.aaron is on a distinguished road
Re: Is sleeping OK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
With the sailing you do between Key West and Guanaja, I'm surprised you haven't sprung for AIS... It's the single biggest boon for the singlehanded offshore sailor today, IMHO, especially sailing a route you do with a pretty heavy concentration of cruise ship and merchant traffic being funneled through the Yucatan Channel...

Standard Horizon makes a very nice VHF with fully integrated AIS for a few hundred bucks... It's a very capable little unit. Of course it has to be integrated to a GPS, so you might have to go with a fixed mount GPS of some sort as well, but I'd still rate that as money very well spent, for the voyaging you do...
Ya, I probably will. I'm slow to adapt to technology. When I sail to Guanaja, I point a little to the east of south when I round the west end of Cuba, staying out of the Yucatan channel and it's currents and heavy traffic, and then due south to Guanaja and see maybe one ship heading to the Caymans. The tuff part of that trip is the straits and running down the north coast line of Cuba. I cross the straights at night and heave to 10 miles off the reef and sleep till around noon waking every hour....sail till 1600..cat nap till sun set.. repeat till i'm around the west end. Reaching out into the Caribbean is like falling into a cumfy bed at the end of a long work week, as soon as I round that corner and the sun comes up I pass out on a broad reach and wake up at sun set. When I nap at night I try and stay in the cockpit, something happens to me at 4 in the morning that no ammount of coffee can counter act. I nod off. I wake every time my head falls so it's like an hour and a half of 5 second sleeps. I bet if I wore a neck brace I would sleep sitting up and steering with my leg!
Brewgyver likes this.
__________________
" Some are boat wise and some are other wise"

Last edited by Capt.aaron; 09-21-2012 at 09:43 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #49  
Old 09-21-2012
travlineasy's Avatar
Morgan 33 O.I. Perryville
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,312
Thanks: 3
Thanked 61 Times in 51 Posts
Rep Power: 4
travlineasy will become famous soon enough
Re: Is sleeping OK?

I single hand sail nearly every trip, mostly in Chesapeake Bay. However, I have spent an enormous amount of time offshore in powerboats, large and small, distances to several hundred miles on a single trip, and spent four years in the U.S. Navy. So, I guess if you add up all my sea time, which is more than 55 years, a dozen pond crossings on war ships, I guess I have a little bit of experience.

However, I base my statement on sleep deprivation upon several first hand experiences.

When I was a young man, 22 years old, I worked in the medical field as the chief cardio-pulmonary technician for two major teaching hospitals in Baltimore. I, like many younger men, figured I was invincible, didn't need to sleep, and could live on a couple hours sleep a night. At the end of 15 years I was down to 140 pounds, looked like a zombie, and realized that I was leading a pretty unhealthy lifestyle. One night, about 3 a.m., I was in the operating room, running the heart-lung machine, which bypasses the patient's heart and lungs so surgery can be performed on the non-beating heart. This was my third case that day, I had been awake 22 hours and only had two hours sleep prior to this stint. I thought I was doing just fine, the patient was fairly stable, and all the sudden I felt a sharp pain in my forehead. I had fallen asleep while adding blood to the oxygenator, fell forward, and my head slammed into the stainless fitting that held the pump housing in place. I had no idea I was falling asleep, and fortunately, the patient was not endangered during the few minutes I was in la-la land. My head was bandaged by one of the thoracic surgery residents, and when the case ended, the same resident stitched up my head just above my left eye. I still have the scar from 50 years ago.

One of the places in the University of Maryland Hospital I worked was the R. Adams Cowley Shock Trauma Center. You would be amazed at the number of automobile accident victims we saw nearly every hour, many of which were the result of individuals that fell asleep behind the wheel. A significant number of these folks freely admitted they lived on just a few hours sleep a night, and that they were confident they were fully functional and alert, despite their lack of sleep. In reality, they were not capable of operating a motor vehicle for the 30 minutes it normally took them to commute to work.

Bottom line - while people sincerely believe they are fully functional, both mentally and physically, while catnapping, and that they are not placing themselves or others in any danger because they are in the vast expanses of the ocean, in reality this is never the case. If the boat is moving and the captain is asleep at the helm, then Houson, there is a problem.

Now, I anticipate that those that routinely do take those catnaps will argue that THEY never have a problem. If they feel that confident, that's just fine. As Clint Eastwood once said "Opinions vary."

Good luck,

Gary
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #50  
Old 09-22-2012
jameswilson29's Avatar
Senior Smart Aleck
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 2,078
Thanks: 28
Thanked 68 Times in 63 Posts
Rep Power: 6
jameswilson29 is on a distinguished road
Re: Is sleeping OK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by travlineasy View Post
...Bottom line - while people sincerely believe they are fully functional, both mentally and physically, while catnapping, and that they are not placing themselves or others in any danger because they are in the vast expanses of the ocean, in reality this is never the case. If the boat is moving and the captain is asleep at the helm, then Houson, there is a problem..:
There is where we disagree. I recognize that I am not fully functional when sleep deprived. So what? I would prefer to be fully functional, but that is not an option. I am capable of safely cruising a boat at less than optimal functioning.

The solution: you should have safe, efficient, redundant, routine practices while underway. If you sail your boat in such a way that you continually require your utmost skills and abilities after 4 or 5 days underway, you will probably be in trouble.

Driving a car is not a fair analogy to cruising a sailboat offshore or on coastal hops. Driving a car requires much greater continuous concentration or focus than sailing a boat in the ocean. In most places, if you nod off on the highway for 20 minutes, you will be in an accident of some kind. At sea, you have just gained some beneficial rest and nothing has happened. If you are scanning the horizon when you wake and you only sleep in 20 minute increments, it is highly unlikely you will strike another vessel. In addition, as many have commented, there is really not that much vessel traffic out there, beyond the major ports (contrary to the many posts on Sailnet by the folks who plan to immediately buy a boat and sail to Hawaii or England with no prior experience).

BTW, I respect the ability of physicians to function on less than adequate sleep. I understand the profession believes that is a useful and necessary skill acquired over time through practice.

Last edited by jameswilson29; 09-22-2012 at 06:49 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sleeping arrangements for little ones? semirg Cruising and Sailing with Children 5 10-07-2011 06:24 AM
Sleeping at sea nasomi Learning to Sail 90 09-19-2010 12:22 AM
More comfortable sleeping? jmcgee Gear & Maintenance 14 09-28-2008 07:37 AM
Sleeping in comfort? wildcard General Discussion (sailing related) 17 06-14-2007 11:36 AM
Sleeping at the wheel Giulietta General Discussion (sailing related) 12 12-02-2006 10:35 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:39 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.