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  #51  
Old 09-22-2012
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Re: Is sleeping OK?

Last time I looked, navy boats do very little single handing when crossing oceans and puddle hopping in the chessapeak is not wuite the same game as crossing oceans. So going by your point of view. Us mad single handers should not be out there. Because we are either to tired to manage the boat or mad because we get some proper kip in.
I have my boat tied up in the upper end of the chessapeak at the moment and there is not a place in that puddle I can not reach within 48 hours and that is a time i am quite happy to go without sleep and then step on the hards stuff for a drink before I hit the hay.
I find it quite funny when I listen to the comments of folks sailing the ARC for the first time. They think about crossing the pond in the ARC gives them the safety in numbers effect only to find out that they don't have another boat in sight after 48 hours. Its a pretty big place out there and if you choose your route right, you are not going to see many other folks out there away from the shipping lanes. In fact on my last transat that ended just over a month ago on a west about I only saw one other sail once I was a day out of horta and that was entering the Delaware bay. One nuclear sub a bout 200 miles of the coast and a hand full of freighters when I crossed the shipping lanes and that was not due to me being assleap most of my crossing
Don't knock it till you try it and have some idea of what you are talikng about.

Regards

Michael

Last edited by Ferretchaser; 09-22-2012 at 11:45 AM.
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  #52  
Old 09-22-2012
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Re: Is sleeping OK?

Guess I'll try to find some good-looking young gal with extensive sailing knowledge to crew for my trip south. When I was in the Navy, helm watches were limited to 4 hours - mainly for safety reasons. Same was true for lookout watches - both day and night.

Stay safe everyone,

Gary
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  #53  
Old 09-22-2012
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Re: Is sleeping OK?

Sorry travlineasy but it just rubs me up the wrong way when someone tells us single handing folk are mad or irresponsible.
If you were to do a single handed ocean crossing and it scares you and did not want to do it again, then that is fair enough and I would respect your choice not to do another. But this broad brush paint job just does not float.

ATB

Michael
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  #54  
Old 09-22-2012
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Re: Is sleeping OK?

Hasn't the real answer to the original question; what is the rule...; been answered and now we are into rationalizations that me make to justify our actions?
Some people are risk averse. Some people need nine hours of sleep a day. These people in all probability are not going to sail single handedly across oceans.
If, however, the siren's song is too seductive for you to ignore and you must cross oceans single handedly and you don't want to violate any rules of the road, then all you have to do is drop your sails, deploy a sea anchor and hoist the appropriate day or night signals that you are a vessel not under command. Take your sleep, awaken and get under way. At best you would have lost, what 45 kts? If you are not out to set some passage records or in some kind of race, then what is the big deal? And as to risk, isn't it about the same as an airplane crashing into your house while sleeping?
Alternatively, you can train yourself in the art of poly-phasic sleep, along with all the other stuff you do to get ready for a single handed ocean crossing. Younger people are more adaptable with sleep processes. But that's not to say older people cannot also train themselves with effort into new sleep processes.
But whatever you do, be sure you are getting enough sleep so that you retain rational abilities and motor skills necessary to handle an emergency situation.
I once observed that soldiers learn to sleep any where and anytime for they know not when they might sleep again. An earlier post mentioned this, and I think it applies here.
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  #55  
Old 09-22-2012
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Re: Is sleeping OK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccriders View Post
and you don't want to violate any rules of the road, then all you have to do is drop your sails, deploy a sea anchor and hoist the appropriate day or night signals that you are a vessel not under command.
Sadly it doesn't work like that. The rule requires a proper lookout unless you are in a special designated anchorage. The sea anchor in some random spot of the ocean does not count.

From a practical point of view just about everything out their is so much bigger than you that if they hit you in the middle of the night they will probably not even know it.

The legal language revolves around "proper lookout" and if electronic assist and 15 minute visual sweeps count.
Sea anchors are not part of the discussion.

Again from a practical point of view I've never heard of anyone getting a ticket on the high-seas for taking a nap. If however their was a collision and you lived, the court apportions responsibility between the two parties. Almost never does the court hold one party 100% responsible. If you were asleep vs awake and you admitted it or it could be proved it is highly likely your percentage of liability would be higher.
Read Farwell's rules of the nautical Road by Allen if you are interested. Over 700 of cases, interesting stuff.

Jessica Watson Collision Report Released | YachtPals.com
The above is a recent incidence of a solo sailor trying to catch a couple z's, she was lucky.

The final report was released in June 2010. The report stated that both Watson and the Silver Yang's watchkeepers had failed to maintain an adequate lookout and that both had failed to properly employ the navigational aids. In addition, the report found that the watchkeeper on the Silver Yang had failed to offer assistance to Watson after the two vessels had collided.[23]

Last edited by davidpm; 09-22-2012 at 11:14 PM.
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  #56  
Old 09-22-2012
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Re: Is sleeping OK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccriders View Post
If, however, the siren's song is too seductive for you to ignore and you must cross oceans single handedly and you don't want to violate any rules of the road, then all you have to do is drop your sails, deploy a sea anchor and hoist the appropriate day or night signals that you are a vessel not under command.
Those lights and shapes would be in violation of Colregs. NUC means the VESSEL is disabled; e.g., broken rudder, engine failure.

There is a very heated discussion on CF on this topic.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...tml#post762903
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Last edited by jackdale; 09-23-2012 at 12:00 AM.
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  #57  
Old 09-23-2012
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Re: Is sleeping OK?

At the end of the day, when I'm on watch in a commercial wheel house, and I hit a well lit , radar visible, and or ais-vhf, barley moving object, I'm at fault, period. If I Hit anything I'll be at fault, sh!t, if something hit's me I'll be at fault, I'll probably loose my job and the coast guard will pull my ticket till investigation. What is the yachty gonna do, say he/ she was asleep? If they are alive? If on the other hand I'm single handling my little sloop and some one hit's me, it's my fault for not being visible enough, If I need to sleep at night in a shipping lane you better belive I'll be lit up, sails illuminated, what ever. I'd have to be the kind of ass hole who doesn't know they're an ass hole to take it to court,( as opposed to the kind I am which is well aware and only on purpose) If I got hit for sleeping and lived, so be it, I'd admit my neglagence, If I hit someone who was well lit, I'd admit my neglagence. If two sail boats collide at 5 knot's they are both ass holes. It's up to me to avoid collisions, and I can catch some sleep and do that effectivly with some common sense, lights, and orange sh!t on deck. If you can't single hand a little sail boat across an ocean you have no buisness being in charge of the vessel, if you NEED a crew your'e not skilled enough to be the decider. The captain should be able to carry out all the duties by them selves and better than anyone on board, that's what the MASTER part of the tilte on the ticket is refering to and or meant to imply. If I ever get hit while sleeping at sea and live to tell about it I will appologize to guy for putting him in a situation where hitting me was even possible.
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Last edited by Capt.aaron; 09-23-2012 at 01:42 PM.
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  #58  
Old 09-23-2012
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Re: Is sleeping OK?

Rule 5 refers to vessels not people, and assumes they have enough crew to keep a proper watch. Singlehanders do the best they can to compensate for being "shorthanded" since for them the satisfactions are worth it. But they shouldn't (and I believe they don't) expect the ship Mate to keep a "better" watch just because they themselves can't keep a continuous watch by sight.
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Old 09-23-2012
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Re: Is sleeping OK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.aaron View Post
If I ever get hit while sleeping at sea and live to tell about it I will appologize to guy for putting him in a situation where hitting me was even possible.
Your whole post was a breath of fresh air. At the end of the day we can't transfer responsibility to someone else.

From a legal point of view however I suspect your insurance company would prefer you didn't discuss it with the other party.

I applaud your sentiment however.
And of course if you are anchored we know you have nothing to worry about.
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Old 09-23-2012
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Re: Is sleeping OK?

DavidPM & Jackdale,
Obviously one can get into deep legal arguments about this subject and being that we are not judges, cannot resolve here. I said to use a sea anchor so that the single hander will not run into something. Lights and shapes are the only means of communicating a vessel not under command, which it would not be if the single hander is not/cannot be on deck maintaining a watch.
What other options do you suggest?
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