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  #31  
Old 09-24-2012
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Re: Frameless steel construction

Sounds like the op has been reading the internet and buying the hype, alot like me until fairly recently... for example, google "balanced lug rig" and you will see a hundred web pages extolling its virtues. Mostly old guys in pd racers on small midwestern lakes btw... I actually built a boat that utilized the rig, everything done on the cheap as the OP is saying, home depot blocks, homemade rope traveller, etc, and it SUCKED....

If you're gonna build a metal boat, do it right and build it in aluminum. A slow, heavy, tender rusty boat with home made blocks will get old fast, and will not be as sturdy as you think. A metal boat takes a loooooong time to build. The steel will have to be sand blasted in order to paint it properly (latex housepaint won't work here though it might on other types of hulls) not to mention the difficulty in transporting materials.

The absolute easiest, cheapest and quickest way to build a boat is undoubtedly chined plywood, ie stitch and glue. A very strong hull can be built in a minimum amount of time with no special materials or skills. If sheathed in fiberglass such boats can be "work boat" finished, and will still be weight competetive if built carefully.

But as many have stated here, and as I have found out personally from experience (and I am approaching this at the same viewpoiunt as the op just a few years down the road from him), nothing is simpler and faster than buying a used hull and fitting it out. You can glass up the hull/deck joint, add stringers and bulkheads, and a few crash compartments, and the boat will be almost as sturdy and crash resistant as a metal boat. Rip out the interior and add whatever you want. If you want a pilothouse plenty of people have added them to existing boats, the quality of finish will depend on you.

OP if sooooooo many people are telling you it makes little sense to build a steel 36 footer yourself at this time and in this market, and it is coming from peopl who have "been there, done that", there may be a reason for this...

but if you must, make sure you voice your opinions on boatdesign.net forums, and do some searches there. Great home and prof builder's forums there

Last edited by peterchech; 09-24-2012 at 11:27 AM.
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  #32  
Old 09-24-2012
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Re: Frameless steel construction

Here is a picture os the home made blocks:

Frameless steel construction-00007.jpg

They look just fine to me, the only thing is the chain link...the guy didn't make the pad eye on the deck big enough, thats it.

Here is a other shot of home made blocks

Frameless steel construction-vang.jpg

And here is a roller furler:

Frameless steel construction-home-made-furler.jpg



Quote:
If you're gonna build a metal boat, do it right and build it in aluminum.
There is a hell of a big difference between aluminum and steel boats...
Number 1 is $$, not everyone has the budget to buy the material for a aluminium boat....or a actual aluminium boat.

Number 2, You need more skills to weld aluminium and you can't expect to be able to do any kind of repaire in a out of the way place except maybe to slap a aluminium sheet on the hull and rivet it in place.

Number 3 corrosion, Aluminium might not rust, but it can be affected big time by electrolysis, good luck if you accidently drop a penny in the bilge, you'll end up with a hole in the bilge in no time!

Number 4, with steel, the boat has more chances of having corrosion issue over the water line, where you can see it easily. With aluminium, you have a bigger chanche to have problems under the water line where you can't spot it right away.

This might sound stupid but I don't know any other building material that will show you the second it starts to corrode with a big red streak.

That being said, I'm not saying that Aluminium boats a no good, just not what i'm looking for.

Quote:
The steel will have to be sand blasted in order to paint it properly (latex housepaint won't work here though it might on other types of hulls)
If you weld up all your detailing before you start the shell, it's possible ( and it has been done with success) to buy your plate wheel abraded and primed with zinc rich primer and build the shell fast enough,so you don't need to sand blased it, the primer has proven to be a good base for epoxy paints.

And even thinking of painting a steel boat with cheap latex paint is ridiculous, IMO epoxy tar is the way to go.


Oh yeah, and tell me she isn't a beauty

Frameless steel construction-swain.jpg
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  #33  
Old 09-24-2012
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Re: Frameless steel construction

my buddy painted his steel hull with some military grade ice breaker paint, he had a connection, but I alway's wonderd what it would take to powder coat a steel boat, does such a facility even exist or is this a rediculous idea?
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Old 09-24-2012
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Re: Frameless steel construction

Aloha Pierre,
I was in your shoes 30 years ago but I was looking at the Roberts design steel boots. After owning several day sailors I bought my current fiberglass 34 footer. I would still like to one day build a custom boat maybe out of steel, but because of time and finaces I cannot see that happening.

If you go your stated route, my suggestion would be stay single, do not buy a fixer upper house- you will have enough to do building the boat, and stay away from women while you are building your boat.

Good luck
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  #35  
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Re: Frameless steel construction

Sounds like u drank the cool aid good luck and post any pics once u get started !

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSailer View Post
Here is a picture os the home made blocks:

Attachment 12256

They look just fine to me, the only thing is the chain link...the guy didn't make the pad eye on the deck big enough, thats it.

Here is a other shot of home made blocks

Attachment 12259

And here is a roller furler:

Attachment 12260





There is a hell of a big difference between aluminum and steel boats...
Number 1 is $$, not everyone has the budget to buy the material for a aluminium boat....or a actual aluminium boat.

Number 2, You need more skills to weld aluminium and you can't expect to be able to do any kind of repaire in a out of the way place except maybe to slap a aluminium sheet on the hull and rivet it in place.

Number 3 corrosion, Aluminium might not rust, but it can be affected big time by electrolysis, good luck if you accidently drop a penny in the bilge, you'll end up with a hole in the bilge in no time!

Number 4, with steel, the boat has more chances of having corrosion issue over the water line, where you can see it easily. With aluminium, you have a bigger chanche to have problems under the water line where you can't spot it right away.

This might sound stupid but I don't know any other building material that will show you the second it starts to corrode with a big red streak.

That being said, I'm not saying that Aluminium boats a no good, just not what i'm looking for.



If you weld up all your detailing before you start the shell, it's possible ( and it has been done with success) to buy your plate wheel abraded and primed with zinc rich primer and build the shell fast enough,so you don't need to sand blased it, the primer has proven to be a good base for epoxy paints.

And even thinking of painting a steel boat with cheap latex paint is ridiculous, IMO epoxy tar is the way to go.


Oh yeah, and tell me she isn't a beauty

Attachment 12261
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  #36  
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Re: Frameless steel construction

Quote:
stay away from women while you are building your boat.
That just might be the hardest part of this hole thing

Quote:
I alway's wonderd what it would take to powder coat a steel boat, does such a facility even exist or is this a rediculous idea?
I've never heard of it, what I'm woundering is if the paint used in this process would double up as a good marine paint?

I've also heard of people painting their boat with automautive paint, but I don't know with what results and I've never actually seen one.

Cheers

Pierre
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Re: Frameless steel construction

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSailer View Post
That just might be the hardest part of this hole thing

Cheers

Pierre
Beer and hard liqour is ok, but just say no to women until the boat is sailable.
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  #38  
Old 09-25-2012
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Re: Frameless steel construction

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSailer View Post
I've never heard of it, what I'm woundering is if the paint used in this process would double up as a good marine paint?
You'd need an oven big enough to hold the boat so it's not likely. It isn't a paint, it's a thermoplastic that is electrostatically attached and then "melted" on in the oven.

Quote:
I've also heard of people painting their boat with automautive paint, but I don't know with what results and I've never actually seen one. Cheers Pierre
Yes you have - two part polys are used on lots of cars & trucks. IIRC Imron was developed for the heavy truck industry.
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Re: Frameless steel construction

Ya, so has anybody ever thought of building a big ass oven, would powder coating a boat make it impervious to corrosion? What do you need, some bricks and insulation and a fire maker machine?
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Re: Frameless steel construction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.aaron View Post
Ya, so has anybody ever thought of building a big ass oven, would powder coating a boat make it impervious to corrosion? What do you need, some bricks and insulation and a fire maker machine?
There are some fairly big ovens out there - hot rodders get complete frames coated but that's a long way from a steel 35 footer.

It's tough stuff but not indestructible - I don't know what you'd do if it was breached - it would start to rust under the coating. You can't spot repair it like paint.

I think the epoxy paint industry is safe for a while longer.
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Last edited by SloopJonB; 09-25-2012 at 10:56 PM.
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