Staysail: Purpose and trimming - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 22 Old 10-11-2012
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Re: Staysail: Purpose and trimming

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Originally Posted by RichH View Post

To make a staysail / headsail combo 'really work'... you really need running backstays to 'help' with the 'two forward shroud' tension interplay problem.
:-)
True - both the C&C 44 and Saga 409 had running backstays.

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post #12 of 22 Old 10-11-2012
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Re: Staysail: Purpose and trimming

I have a Crealock 37 and sail singlehanded 99% of the time. My stay is permanent.
A staysail is all about balancing and center of power for your boat.

I love my staysail and find it's my most useful sail especially as a singlehander. Great for helping to balance and power with or without my monitor windvane.

Use upwind, downwind, light winds and heavy winds
Use instead of partial furling jib in heavy winds
Use in conjunction with my aso
Use when heaving-to
Use only stay when a chubasco or elephante is on the horizon, etc.

Never had the need for the storm sail or para-sea anchor that came with my boat...Hawaii & Mexico vet. Always check the forecasts and avoid the need...storms are no bueno for me

Read about staysail use but you'll only learn how cool/useful a staysail is with experience...
Go sailing, go sailing often. Sail with main & stay only upwind, downwind, beam, light and heavy wind, etc.
Practice heaving to, practice balancing boat with main and stay, then practice balancing with main, stay & jib.

Go sailing, go sailing often!
That last thing---A staysail looks so cool!

Last edited by whosedream; 10-11-2012 at 12:31 PM.
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post #13 of 22 Old 10-11-2012 Thread Starter
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Re: Staysail: Purpose and trimming

Thank you everyone! Very useful information! I will check out the articles. jsaronson and macswift: since the boat was designed specifically for racing, your explanations make sense. Thanks again.
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post #14 of 22 Old 10-11-2012
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Re: Staysail: Purpose and trimming

Oops, forgot the 'important' stuff.
Use a full set of tell tales on all the sails, trim the staysl as per the leech tell tales ...... then final 'trim' in/out and to set best proximity to the headsail ..... and adjust that in/out according to your SPEEDO or VMG.
You get the 'best' interaction adjusting the slot-distance between the stay'sl and head'sl using the SPEEDO ... and you probably wont see much change in the tell tale flow.
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post #15 of 22 Old 03-12-2017
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Re: Staysail: Purpose and trimming

For the benefit of anyone who, like me, went to the link shown above for the staysail info and found it pointing to a German-language site about rice cooking, here is a link to the PDF we wanted:

w w w .
f t p .
tognews.
com/Publications/Arvel%20Gentry%20Articles/07_The_Double_Head_Rig.pdf

I had to corrupt the URL because I don't have enough posts credited to my username to be allowed to post links.... argh...! All these rules!!
Just remove the obvious spaces and line breaks.. hope this works!!
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post #16 of 22 Old 03-12-2017
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Re: Staysail: Purpose and trimming

Thanks for the update. I'm not a expert in hydrodynamic physics, so, was trying to figure out how rice cooking and the slot effect are related.

BTW, welcome to Sailnet.
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post #17 of 22 Old 03-13-2017
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Re: Staysail: Purpose and trimming

Arvel Gentry died several years ago (2013) and his family has apparently elected to not continue his website. Further, the TOG (Tayana Owners Group) ftp website has also been abandoned several years ago, although ftp data is still 'up'.

There was some discussion of capturing most of Arvel Gentry's for repository/archive publication here at Sailnet .... didn't happen. Would have been a most valued resource.

Here's probably the only currently reliable still active link(s) for Gentry's works on sail aerodynamics (based in Spanish Language but the articles remain in Englisch): https://arvelgentry.jimdo.com/articles/ I dont know how long this website will remain active. It doesnt contain all the 'important' Gentry articles, especially the correct treatises that explain on a strictly aero-technical basis of how wings/sails 'actually' work ... as opposed to the foolishness of what one reads in high school general science courses and 'how to sail' books.
Its really quite sad that ultimately all of these seminal Arvel Gentry articles on 'how sails work' ... based on actual aerodynamics (actual aerodynamic field effect plotting) are slowly becoming lost. Very very sad.
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post #18 of 22 Old 03-13-2017
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Re: Staysail: Purpose and trimming

Out of the 5 boats we owned, 2 had staysails. One with a detachable forestay, the other with the staysail on a roller.

IMHO, initially at least, don't make this complicated. The main benefit is heavy wind. When the wind pipes up, you want to get as much of the effort concentrated in the middle of the boat so it balances. The sail on the front of the boat is trying to force the boat to turn down wind. The sail on the back of the boat is trying to make it turn into the wind. When these 2 forces are relatively balanced, the rudder doesn't work too hard, the effort you need to place on the tiller or wheel is right, and the boat doesn't end up on its ear.

So the normal drill is, the wind pipes up, take down (or roll up the genoa), reef the mainsail, and deploy the staysail.


Yea, I know, in some situations it makes sense to run both of the forward sails, but try this first. It works great. First time you sail upwind, into 35 kts true, and are comfortable, you'll really like this having a staysail, especially with when your friends with big genoa's are hanging on their moorings.

Good luck, sounds like a great setup.
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post #19 of 22 Old 1 Week Ago
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Re: Staysail: Purpose and trimming

So, while rummaging through my storage, I've found what seems to be a wire luff Stays'l. I connected the head to the stays'l halyard, the tack to a car on the foredeck and hoisted it. You can see in the picture that it does look like a stays'l. But, with no baby stay, is this safe to run this way? or should the halyard be run along the luff, through a turning block and back up? Not sure my halyard is long enough for that. Anyway, is the thin wire in the luff enough to support this in a strong wind? I've had this boat six years and until now never even considered this!
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post #20 of 22 Old 1 Week Ago
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Re: Staysail: Purpose and trimming

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Originally Posted by rbrasi View Post
So, while rummaging through my storage, I've found what seems to be a wire luff Stays'l. I connected the head to the stays'l halyard, the tack to a car on the foredeck and hoisted it. You can see in the picture that it does look like a stays'l. But, with no baby stay, is this safe to run this way? or should the halyard be run along the luff, through a turning block and back up? Not sure my halyard is long enough for that. Anyway, is the thin wire in the luff enough to support this in a strong wind? I've had this boat six years and until now never even considered this!
That's not what a baby stay does, what you are talking about are running backstays. With the main up there is some support there but I will wait for more experience to speak up. Do you have signs of runners?

I should have said Check stays, not running backs.

Last edited by albrazzi; 1 Week Ago at 05:08 PM.
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