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post #21 of 31 Old 10-21-2012
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Re: Fin vs bulb vs wing keels

R3:
Sometimes you are just not going to be able to apply reason to the performance argument. Yesterday we had a long race with every condition and heading imaginable. We saw almost 30 knots TWS and TWS down to 2 knots. It was the Race Your House race for liveaboards and we had a fleet of 50 boats that covered all but the very top end of the performance and type spectrum. Racing a pilot house baba 35 we managed a second in class being beat by 22 seconds on corrected time and 2 minutes on elapsed time by a well sailed ( damn it) Cat 30 raced by a very good sailor and old pal of mine. The HC''s, Ingrids and Cape George Cutters were well behind us. I think we amazed a lot of sailors, including myself. That puts a lot of the talk to rest.

Sometimes I like to point out to an owner of an "antique" type design (and I have design a few of them) that he should check the PHRF rating for his boat. PHRF ratings are usually very good indicators of a boat's potential performance. Kind of like this, "If your boat is that fast why does it rate 255?"

At the end of our race I could not even see either of the two HC's in the race. Mind you, we pushed the Baba 35 very hard and we had very good sails (thank you Carol Hassey) plus an Aussie pal of mine called tactics and sail trim. We raced for fun and our attitude is winning is the way to have the most fun. Several boats dropped out of the race including a Cape George cutter. I'm not sure our performance did much to promote the "full keel boats are slow upwind" argument. We seemed to hold our own and maintain very good VMG's upwind. But I am not so blind as to think a full keel boat has the same upwind potential or even downwind, in most conditions, as a well sailed fin keel boat.

Maybe, "You're full of crap" was the only way to end that argument.

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Last edited by bobperry; 10-21-2012 at 12:21 PM.
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post #22 of 31 Old 10-21-2012
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Re: Fin vs bulb vs wing keels

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R3:
Racing a pilot house baba 35 we managed a second in class being beat by 22 seconds on corrected time and 2 minutes on elapsed time by a well sailed ( damn it) Cat 30 raced by a very good sailor and old pal of mine.
Like a ray of sunshine, it is

The Baba PHs were my dream boat for years and years Bob.

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post #23 of 31 Old 10-21-2012
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Re: Fin vs bulb vs wing keels

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My last post was made after a long and hard and succesful day of racing in lots of wind. I was tired and re-reading my post it now seems a bit snotty. My excuse is, I was feeling snotty. I'll work on being nicer next time.
Hi Bob.. Not sure about anyone else, but I did not take your post as a bad post.

I found your post about the two boats quite useful as I have often wondered the real performance difference between the two keels. It seemed a very well controlled test between two boats. Would be nice if all comparisons between boats was so well done.
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post #24 of 31 Old 10-21-2012
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Re: Fin vs bulb vs wing keels

GTX:
Thanks and you are correct. But in all fairness that was a different time and money was more available for experiments like that. It was fun. We had fun. We all enjoyed the process and we all understood the results. We flew back to Seattle satisfied and feeling like we had learned something.

It's a different world today.

Ok, I deleted the rest of this post because it got political and if I thought you had any interest at all in my political opinions I'd think you were idiots. I know better.

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post #25 of 31 Old 10-21-2012
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Re: Fin vs bulb vs wing keels

Bob,

Did not know you were out there yesterday. Did you like that squall about 3pm or there abouts! about 1/3 of the fall regatta folks dropped out in the third race! Was real happy about our finish, only had three on board, could have used 2 others, got a 1st and 2nd, last a 5th........wore out the crew on that one, so went easy when the squall came thru, took them awhile to want to put the jib up, but once we did, could not catch the others in front......oh well, was afraid we would have a 3rd overall from that fiasco!

Sloop was packed afterwards last night too! Were you at the party?

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post #26 of 31 Old 10-22-2012
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Re: Fin vs bulb vs wing keels

Waterspouts on north Puget Sound - Local News - Seattle, WA | NBC News

Good thing we were not in Everett! or there abouts eh! It was more PHUN weather wise near BP's house!

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post #27 of 31 Old 10-22-2012
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Re: Fin vs bulb vs wing keels

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Waterspouts on north Puget Sound - Local News - Seattle, WA | NBC News

Good thing we were not in Everett! or there abouts eh! It was more PHUN weather wise near BP's house!
I saw one of those once on English Bay. Has anyone here ever been hit by one?

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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Re: Fin vs bulb vs wing keels

Not sure which would be worst, a water spout, or an actual cyclone/dust devil type thing. The water possibly, since water would should have more solid mass to it!

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post #29 of 31 Old 10-22-2012
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Re: Fin vs bulb vs wing keels

We were chased back to our home port by a spout in earlier September by a waterspout off off Baltimores North Point on the nChesapeake Bay and the Patapsco River.

We had made our way back to the Bay that day from Cape May as it was the last day of our NE/ LI Sound trip and the wether had been threatening all day with TStorms. As we approached the Patapsco the clouds lowered, got greenish purple and we saw a funnel drop sideways out of the hook like looking cloud. It hit the water about a half a mile away, and we could hear the low rumble of it. We had our sails down and engine on ull blast as we saw it moving parallel with us for 5 minutes. We finally hit the river and were able to veer away as it continued SW.

That was close enough for me.

Dave


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post #30 of 31 Old 10-22-2012
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Re: Fin vs bulb vs wing keels

Marty:
My wife was at the shack all day Saturday and she was a bit concerned about the weather we would have on the race. It was pretty damn nice actually. Much worse at the shack.

We had a really good race and got 2nd in class in a tubby, pilot house double ender that had a lot of bigger, more modern boats looking slow. I drove the boat harder than it had ever been driven according to the owner but I had a ball and the boat responded very well. The Carol Hassey sails were new and a good part of the key to out performance. All in all a satisfying day on the water.

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