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  #61  
Old 10-15-2012
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Re: Buying a 30-40 year old boat - your opinions

You learn a lot when you build your own house. I know I did. One of the things I learned after we moved in was I took on way too much myself. I won't do that with a boat.

The boat I'll buy will be ready to live aboard and at least take out for short sails. Better, would be harbor hopping. Whatever needs fixing can be done along the way.

I've been browsing the Internet for over a year. When I look at the photos, I first try to place myself on the boat and, with the compiled images in my head, try to imagine the work I'll have to do to make her home. There have been times I've felt exhausted from just thinking about it. That's my cue to move on.

I had always had enough faith in my ability to spot potential problems and hadn't planned on using a surveyor. But when we were having breakfast with Pam Wall, she kind of sold me on the surveyor idea but warned me not all surveyors are not the same and I'll have to do my homework finding a reputable surveyor. Just another hoop one has to jump through.

Of course I first have to do a lot of work around the house before I sell it.

It just never ends, does it?
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  #62  
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Re: Buying a 30-40 year old boat - your opinions

I agree with the statement that it must be home to "you".

We just looked at a newer Hunter 33, IKEA city. I will not buy a boat that looks like one of the desks I get at Office Depot - YUCK!. The design and layout of this boat was really good, the quality was awful.

If you intend to cruise the US East coast, Bahamas and Keys, 5 foot should be considered a hard draft limit with 4'6" or less being even better. This removes a lot of those "deals" you see on yachtworld with 5'+ drafts.

Core hulls and iron keels fit into the "why?" category. Who needs the headache and potentially significant additional expense associated with these. Didn't Tartan have serious quality issues that were widely reported? This is your hull!

One thing is for certain. Caveat emptor should be taken very seriously when buying a boat.

There is a boat on yachtworld where the boat had been structurally damaged and repaired and the brokers were hiding this fact. I ran into the seller when inspecting the boat and he asked if the brokers told me - they had not. I don't want to paint with too broad a brush with brokers as I have encountered a couple of honest ones
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  #63  
Old 10-15-2012
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Re: Buying a 30-40 year old boat - your opinions

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartsContent View Post

One thing is for certain. Caveat emptor should be taken very seriously when buying a boat.

There is a boat on yachtworld where the boat had been structurally damaged and repaired and the brokers were hiding this fact. I ran into the seller when inspecting the boat and he asked if the brokers told me - they had not.
Wow!
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Re: Buying a 30-40 year old boat - your opinions

Quote:
Core hulls and iron keels fit into the "why?" category. Who needs the headache and potentially significant additional expense associated with these. Didn't Tartan have serious quality issues that were widely reported? This is your hull!-HeartsContent

Cored hulls a problem. Guess you should eliminate many of the finer boats made..Cored hulls by themeselves are not the problem. Its when the thru hulls are not bedded properly allow water intrusions and therefore moisture. Proper bedding means no moistyre. Most boats above the waterline are cored in some fashion. To each his own though.

Tartans problem was not a cored hull. It was a quality control issue with a new process in terms of laying up the epoxy. Iron keels,,,hmmm I prefer lead.....If tghey encapsulated though there should be no problem

So Hearts...what boats have you owned already? Which ones meet your criteria that you are looking at to buy?

Dave
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  #65  
Old 10-15-2012
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Re: Buying a 30-40 year old boat - your opinions

I love what TomMaine wrote: "But a boat as a whole, is a sum of a zillion parts." In looking at older boats you need to evaluate every system and realize that even though it may be in good shape now, will it need replacing during the time frame that you intend to own the boat. Stuff like the basic electrical system is ignored by a lot of people if it "works", but you need to dig into it, including all battery cables, and unless tinned wire was used you may need to replace it all at some point. Same goes for all the hoses; exhaust, engine, scupper and sink drains, sewage, fuel fill, etc. If all the standing rigging hasn't been replaced in 15 years it's recommended to do so. A lot of people get hung up on the condition of the engine, but basically if it's bad you just replace it with new, not that big a deal really. It's all the "zillion" parts that WILL need replacing at some point that can be the ruin of owning an older boat (everyone has heard someone say they just couldn't maintain it any longer as a reason for selling). Basically you need to start with a boat that has good bones, that was professionally built to begin with and hopefully well maintained and upgraded by a knowledgeable owner or yard. I've looked at a lot of older boats that looked great on the outside, until you started peeking into areas that are hard to access, that's where you see just how old the boat is and what was important to the owner. The best advice I could give someone thinking about buying an older boat is to find one that someone just spent years working on and a ton of money on, but had to change their plans for some reason (good advice, wish I'd taken it myself on the three boats I've resurrected:-)). I agree with the Chi thing, hard to define, but you know in short order if a boat has it for you.
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  #66  
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Re: Buying a 30-40 year old boat - your opinions

There's a lot of "ifs" in there but clearly you have your mind made up.

But for the rest, they now know a few things that say "move on" when looking for a boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Cored hulls a problem. Guess you should eliminate many of the finer boats made..Cored hulls by themeselves are not the problem. Its when the thru hulls are not bedded properly allow water intrusions and therefore moisture. Proper bedding means no moistyre. Most boats above the waterline are cored in some fashion. To each his own though.

Tartans problem was not a cored hull. It was a quality control issue with a new process in terms of laying up the epoxy. Iron keels,,,hmmm I prefer lead.....If tghey encapsulated though there should be no problem

So Hearts...what boats have you owned already? Which ones meet your criteria that you are looking at to buy?

Dave
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  #67  
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Re: Buying a 30-40 year old boat - your opinions

I was looking at a Swan today that was within our price range. The photos had me dreaming. But the 8' draft? As much as I wanted to own what was once my dream boat, I had to move on.

A few here mentioned Moody. I looked at two that were also in our price range. If they are as well built as some say they are, this may become our boat of choice. Of course, you can never know until you actually step aboard and see how she fits.

I had thought for years that Cambria should be on the list. At the boat show they had a Cambria 46 (or was it a 44?). It was so tight, it was hard to get around on and I saw a number of things that needed attention. But looking at pictures of the same boat and she looks like a dream.
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Re: Buying a 30-40 year old boat - your opinions

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post
Moral of the story? Don't go nuts on an old boat, just fix it up and go. Go ahead and add those systems you like (or remove them..), make her you're own - but for gods sakes set a line on how far you should go with a refit, and stick to it.
+1.
Also Caveat surveyor, if you have doubts about anything, listen to them! Get an objective friend to go along for an inspection first, as there's little to no recourse against a surveyor who screws you over.

Spending months refitting things damaged through stupidity and abuse that were supposed to be well cared for is a sure fire way to burn out some of your enthusiasm, and change how you see boats.
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Re: Buying a 30-40 year old boat - your opinions

This may sound strange to all you sailors, but we have a 1984 Power boat and wouldn't want a new want a new power boat either. Besides the fact we are looking to trade her in for a sail boat, even new power boats just don't have the same feel as older boats do.

For us we have had many items to update over the yrs and many items still need to be done, however unless those items are safety related you can do them when and as you see fit.

Each year we fix or replace items on our wish list. Always keeping the safety items at the top.

Another benefit to doing these upgrades is you'll know those systems inside and out. When a problem comes up later you will be the tech support. Not calling a factory with the hopes you'll find someone who knows what they are talking about.

Also our boat cost us $20K 4 yrs ago and we have put maybe $5K in her. Trying buying a new 2012 32ft power boat for $25K. I'm 100% sure the same will be true for a sail boat as well.
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Re: Buying a 30-40 year old boat - your opinions

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Originally Posted by JulieMor View Post
A few here mentioned Moody. I looked at two that were also in our price range. If they are as well built as some say they are, this may become our boat of choice. Of course, you can never know until you actually step aboard and see how she fits.
Wow... now you are talking. Moody is a nice boat, but not too many in the States. I like the Moody 42, and love her layout. There is one in New England posted in YW. Just too bad that the hull is painted red, a bit offensive to me.
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