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  #91  
Old 10-21-2012
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Re: Boarding and rafting to stranger's boats.

I'll bet that in the rules and regulations of the public dock it says that you have to accept people rafting up to you.
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  #92  
Old 10-21-2012
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Re: Boarding and rafting to stranger's boats.

I'm guessing many of our international posters here are somewhat amused by the attitudes expressed by some of the American sailors, here...

I think one finds that once one really starts going places, cruisers generally work together, and manage to sort this stuff out...

Like at the Southernmost Yacht Club in the World, for example...

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  #93  
Old 10-21-2012
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Re: Boarding and rafting to stranger's boats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sww914 View Post
I'll bet that in the rules and regulations of the public dock it says that you have to accept people rafting up to you.
Well.....You'd lose that bet. As was pointed out by another member, the dock forbids rafting. Here is an quote from our local sailing rag as to why:
"Grant points out that the surge from ferries and commercial traffic is clearly the common-sense reasoning behind the dock's 'no rafting' rule, and suggests doubling up on docklines and adding spring lines, no matter how long you plan to stay. The 180-ft dock, open from 10 a.m.-10 p.m., has a three-hour limit and can accommodate boats up to 40 feet."
(Red highlight added by me)
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  #94  
Old 10-21-2012
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Re: Boarding and rafting to stranger's boats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonV View Post
I just read this whole thread and the first thing I noticed was the OP had not been rafted up too, only the crew man had been dropped off and was using the OPs boat as access to the public wharf. As the OP was blocking access to the public wharf, I can see no harm. Had he been on his boat I would assume the trespasser would have asked permission. Lay a blanket in front of a public thoroughfare, expect people to step on it.
Might want to read the OP again. You misunderstood the situation/facts and I don't know how to make them any clearer. In any case, your hypothetical "intruder" would have come from a boat that would have needed to raft to my boat (no matter how briefly) to make the transition. In that surge, anything less (i.e., a drive by jump off) would have been very dicey for the boats and especially the "trespasser".
As to your last point... I get it. "Put anything between me and where I want to go and I'll use it to get there - Regardless of rules, regulations, courtesy or common sense. I understand, I've been warned! That alone makes this thread worthwhile.

Last edited by L124C; 10-21-2012 at 03:32 PM.
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Re: Boarding and rafting to stranger's boats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post
Why do many on the pro rafting side automatically assume people who don't necessarily want to be rafted to and boarded are bad/wrong/jerks/bad people, whatever.. ?

Also, how and where do the pro rafters draw the line? At five boats? ten? A hundred? Who are you to say to that last guy who wants to add his boat in top of the pile... no, your boat is one too many?

It seems to me that in a pro rafting world, where the general attitude is "I need my access to the public dock regardless of all others" you give up your right to tell anyone at anytime "no, you may not add to the pile".

?
I dont think anyone is assuming the anti-rafters are jerks. There definitely are times when it is inappropriate and can cause damage to boats and the dock. Where to draw the line is a tough call and hopefully common sense will prevail. We have been rafted and when I thought the pile got to big or wind picked up I moved my boat. Not always convenient but such is life.

We all need to share limited resources such as dock space and play nice with others. If you dont want to be rafted to no matter what the conditions and what is allowed, then using a public dock probably isnt a good choice whether paying a fee or not.

In the case of the OP the surge made it inappropriate and the dock appears to have a no rafting policy for good reason. The person attempting to raft should not have even considered it.

As a child I was taught to share. Whats the objection to sharing under appropriate circumstances?
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Re: Boarding and rafting to stranger's boats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L124C View Post
Well.....You'd lose that bet. As was pointed out by another member, the dock forbids rafting. Here is an quote from our local sailing rag as to why:
"Grant points out that the surge from ferries and commercial traffic is clearly the common-sense reasoning behind the dock's 'no rafting' rule, and suggests doubling up on docklines and adding spring lines, no matter how long you plan to stay. The 180-ft dock, open from 10 a.m.-10 p.m., has a three-hour limit and can accommodate boats up to 40 feet."
(Red highlight added by me)
So this discussion is all a moot point then. The rules of the dock forbid rafting. The other guy should have known that, and by saying he does it all the time, he is either grossly blind, or a scofflaw.
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Re: Boarding and rafting to stranger's boats.

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Originally Posted by Ninefingers View Post
So this discussion is all a moot point then. The rules of the dock forbid rafting. The other guy should have known that, and by saying he does it all the time, he is either grossly blind, or a scofflaw.
Not moot at all. I didn't know rafting was forbidden at the subject dock when I posted the OP. In addition, the thread has pointed out that what I considered taboo (rafting/boarding without consent), is customary in some areas and is considered OK by many, regardless of regulations/conditions. I'll plan accordingly in the future. As usual, I have benefited from the thread.
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Last edited by L124C; 10-21-2012 at 03:50 PM.
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Re: Boarding and rafting to stranger's boats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
I'm guessing many of our international posters here are somewhat amused by the attitudes expressed by some of the American sailors, here...
I think one finds that once one really starts going places, cruisers generally work together, and manage to sort this stuff out...
Like at the Southernmost Yacht Club in the World, for example...
I think the distinction might be "cruisers" (don't think we need to bring nationality into it). IMO, cruisers are generally experienced (i.e., mindful of surge), are respectful of other boats, as the vessel is both their home and mode of transportation. At the dock in the OP, you are more likely to find testosterone laden racers and boat owners who may take their boats out a couple of times a year (the link I provided in a previous post being an example of the latter). Either one of which, may have had "one too many".
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Re: Boarding and rafting to stranger's boats.

[ As for public free docking, you get what you pay for.[/QUOTE]

I wish!

In Alaska, there is little opporttunity to moor a boat somewhere, extremes of weather and horrendous tides pretty much force all to use the public harbors, and most have multi year waiting lists. It's been my experience that the boats forced into "transient moorage" (vs slips), pay as much and frequently much more than a slipholder. By and large cities get a harbor built by the state and federal money and use the harbor revenue to subsidize the city budget, thereby lowering the tax rate for land owning residents. This frequently creates a system where fees are maximized and services lessened, simply to maximize profits for the harbor, which then flows to the city budget.
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Old 10-21-2012
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Re: Boarding and rafting to stranger's boats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by delite View Post
I dont think anyone is assuming the anti-rafters are jerks. There definitely are times when it is inappropriate and can cause damage to boats and the dock. Where to draw the line is a tough call and hopefully common sense will prevail. We have been rafted and when I thought the pile got to big or wind picked up I moved my boat. Not always convenient but such is life.
There is no denying some of the haughty comments made by some of our experienced "world" cruiser friends here regarding this topic. Some of the discussions by those folks in response to those questioning rafting and boarding others vessels unannounced have a disdainful tone that seems to imply that we "just don't want to be neighborly" or be "good cruisers", or be "generous" or whatever. This is not the case at all.

Regarding where to draw the line, I have to say it again - who is anyone to decide what's appropriate, if you believe in a come one/come all dock situation?

Quote:
We all need to share limited resources such as dock space and play nice with others. If you dont want to be rafted to no matter what the conditions and what is allowed, then using a public dock probably isnt a good choice whether paying a fee or not.
Wait a minute, in a pleasure boating scenario - why do we all need to share limited resources of dock space exactly? This "rule" doesn't apply to any other recreational pastime I am aware of. If I show up to play tennis and the courts are full - I wait or leave. Ditto with just about everything else out there. Why do people think boating is different? Just because they see some workboats or other maritime occupations doing it?

What about those who got there first, often with careful forethought and timing so they could score good parking? Is there no argument to made that "those who snooze, lose", or better yet - "The early bird gets the worm"? This is like the notion that all kids get a trophy just for showing up, regardless of those who earned it. If you get the good parking first, didn't you earn it?

Public docks in some places may have a local custom of rafting, which is of course fine (it's the local custom after all), but that's certainly not the case everywhere - and definitely not here on the Chesapeake Bay. Many here seem to be making a blanket argument that any and every public dock should follow this line of thinking.

Whether the pro unannounced rafter/boarder contingent here wants to admit it or not, there is a more that fair argument to be made that, as a pleasure boater who is out there by your own choice, you sometimes may not be entitled to dockage just because you want it right then and there. Again, what about those who made the effort to get in early and get the dock space?

Quote:
As a child I was taught to share. Whats the objection to sharing under appropriate circumstances?
This is the crux of the argument made by the rafter/boarder set that I find so over the top arrogant, as if that since I don't want to walk up to my (ex) boat to find someone rafted to it and in my cockpit or on my cabin top, that I must "object to sharing" somehow.

No one should be expected to be forced to "share" their personal property in any way shape or form. The onus is not on the person whos property is being violated without permission to defend or justify why it shouldn't be, it's on the person who has decided to invade another persons personal property and space in the name of recreational boating to explain why it should be.

Personal property rights and usage control should not end at the waters edge just because (generally speaking) sailors are a generous and giving people. Those who would expect that of others are simply taking advantage of the good and generous cruiser nature via their own perceived self entitlement.

I freely admit that I do not have the Jon Eisberg level of experience of international travel, adventure and intrigue - but I have experienced enough of the competence level of many of my fellow Chesapeake sailors to know I don't want the majority of them within a hundred yards of my (ex) boat, let alone trust them enough to care to maintain my brightside and brightwork like I do. Way too many incompetents, drunks and dicks to not care if they raft and board my boat without asking me (or me around to oversee things). Maybe boaters are more trustworthy and competent in other locations, but around here they very often just aren't.

Maybe some of the sailors here have forgotten that this pastime is just that - a recreational pastime, and that unless you are on a workboat or some other occupation of maritime importance, you aren't entitled to squat (especially at the risk and potential cost to others).
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