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post #21 of 68 Old 10-17-2012
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Re: Team Oracle Boat Capsizes

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Hey Smack,
Now you don't have to feel so bad about your "cat".
You got that right. I can now say I sailed my boat just like Jimmy Spithill!!

And mine is going to be a bit cheaper to put right.


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post #22 of 68 Old 10-17-2012
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Re: Team Oracle Boat Capsizes

From what I read, the wing - which cost about $2m - was trashed. The Slot can be a real b*tch at times.
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post #23 of 68 Old 10-18-2012
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Re: Team Oracle Boat Capsizes

Many other points against having gone to cats, IMHO. Firstly, the necessity to move away from crew power and toward powered winches, etc., is a big time violation of the spirit of this race. Yeah, I know, Dylan went electric, too. Not the same thing. Secondly, is that it nearly destroys the AC's (admittedly slim) chance of becoming any kind of spectator sport. Under normal race conditions, chances are the boats will be so mismatched or belabor a penalty for so long (because the cats are so lousy to tack) that the competitors will only rarely be in the same camera shot. That's what happened last time. Tacking duels, arguably the most exciting part of any top-end monohull race? Gone. So, the only excitement left is a catastrophic capsize. Great, now you've attracted people to a sailing race for the same reason they go to see NASCAR.
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post #24 of 68 Old 10-18-2012
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Re: Team Oracle Boat Capsizes

It's always been a rich mans game anda financial arms race. I always enjoy watching other people spend money. Of course it's impractical.

Watching the AC 45 race is exciting, no question. The fleet has crashes and the match racing is competative. The races are short enought to hold interest. The boats seem rugged enough, given the rough-and-tumble action. We'ld expect that, since it was an evolution of other 45-foot cat racing.

Yeah, the AC 72s are a big step. Powered winches vs canting keels? It's all fun to watch.

(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

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post #25 of 68 Old 10-18-2012
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Re: Team Oracle Boat Capsizes

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It's always been a rich mans game anda financial arms race. I always enjoy watching other people spend money. Of course it's impractical.

Watching the AC 45 race is exciting, no question. The fleet has crashes and the match racing is competative. The races are short enought to hold interest. The boats seem rugged enough, given the rough-and-tumble action. We'ld expect that, since it was an evolution of other 45-foot cat racing.

Yeah, the AC 72s are a big step. Powered winches vs canting keels? It's all fun to watch.
Who said anything about canting keels? I think you turn your back on 150 years of tradition when you eliminate the human element. Hell, why have sails at all? Make it a power boat race.
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post #26 of 68 Old 10-18-2012
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Re: Team Oracle Boat Capsizes

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Many other points against having gone to cats, IMHO. Firstly, the necessity to move away from crew power and toward powered winches, etc., is a big time violation of the spirit of this race. Yeah, I know, Dylan went electric, too. Not the same thing. Secondly, is that it nearly destroys the AC's (admittedly slim) chance of becoming any kind of spectator sport. Under normal race conditions, chances are the boats will be so mismatched or belabor a penalty for so long (because the cats are so lousy to tack) that the competitors will only rarely be in the same camera shot. That's what happened last time. Tacking duels, arguably the most exciting part of any top-end monohull race? Gone. So, the only excitement left is a catastrophic capsize. Great, now you've attracted people to a sailing race for the same reason they go to see NASCAR.
Totally disagree. I do think the 72s are a mistake - too big and too unwieldy. But the 45s have saved the AC by turning it INTO a spectator sport. Best move ever. Monos should never come back. The VOR has those covered and is WAY more exciting and entertaining for the typical viewing audience than any AC ever has been. With the 45s the AC is finally offering something interesting to compete with the VOR.

Go the cats.


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post #27 of 68 Old 10-18-2012
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Re: Team Oracle Boat Capsizes

Faster boats might be more interesting to watch if it were possible to capture the reality of that speed on camera - it's not. So, you're left with two boats whose apparent wind is so severe that they obviate 90 percent of the sail triming (they are always close hauled regardless of point of sail). Assuming they are anything close to evenly matched, one small mistake and you're *miles* from your competitor and the "race" falls apart - it turns into a rout. Snooze. The boats themselves are interesting in their novelty, but that wore off pretty quickly last time when we didn't get to see anything resembling a real competition - no tacking duels (there will never be again with cats), no burly crew straining at the winches, just the helmsman and some human ballast pushing buttons.

Come to think of it, maybe it's perfect for the video game age.
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post #28 of 68 Old 10-18-2012
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Re: Team Oracle Boat Capsizes

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Faster boats might be more interesting to watch if it were possible to capture the reality of that speed on camera - it's not. So, you're left with two boats whose apparent wind is so severe that they obviate 90 percent of the sail triming (they are always close hauled regardless of point of sail). Assuming they are anything close to evenly matched, one small mistake and you're *miles* from your competitor and the "race" falls apart - it turns into a rout. Snooze. The boats themselves are interesting in their novelty, but that wore off pretty quickly last time when we didn't get to see anything resembling a real competition - no tacking duels (there will never be again with cats), no burly crew straining at the winches, just the helmsman and some human ballast pushing buttons.

Come to think of it, maybe it's perfect for the video game age.
No tacking duels? Really? It doesn't sound like you've watched any of the ACWS. Both the fleet and match races have been awesome on the 45s. Great start strategies, great covering, and some very good tacking duals when called for (although separation strategies have been more effective). Furthermore, the graphics have been a phenomenal addition to helping people understand the strategies, marks, rules and boundaries.

But you hit on exactly what makes this so much more fun to watch...the speed. One mistake and the other boat is gone. This just means every competitor has to up their game! How can that be a bad thing? That's awesome! The forgiveness (and boredom) inherent in slow boats is gone. These guys have to be on every second - or it's over. Furthermore, this makes the tacking duels, when they happen, that much more compelling. BUT, tacking duels aren't the only interesting thing in yacht racing anymore (thank goodness).

Look, there were more than 1 million spectators along the shore for that last Super Sunday race in SF. They watched all the action which was just a couple of hundred meters away. Past ACs were typically so far from shore that spectators couldn't see anything anyway. So I think you're arguments are a bit hollow.

One interesting thing though was that a younger couple was interviewed course-side, and mentioned that they were using their phones, iPads, etc. to follow the streaming coverage as well. This is the equivalent of the JumboTron at NFL games. You're physically there, but you can't see the nuances of the game, so you enhance the experience with television.

As for the burly dudes, sail trim, and button pushing....did you see the crews working the 45s? There was no button-pushing there. And they were working their butts off. So you're too focused on the 72s - which, as I said, are a mistake in my opinion.

The AC has, perhaps unintentionally, created an incredibly fun sport to watch with the ACWS and the 45s. That's where the future lies.


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Last edited by smackdaddy; 10-18-2012 at 10:54 AM.
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post #29 of 68 Old 10-18-2012
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Re: Not to do

was it capsize like heeling beyond the return point, or pitchpole after bow dug in?
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Re: Not to do

wait, just found answer to my question, clearly a pitchpole:



Which is scarier because there's much less you can do to prevent it than if it were a good ole "ease the sheet, we're heeling" capsize.
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