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post #41 of 68 Old 10-19-2012
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Re: Team Oracle Boat Capsizes

If they are trying to gain a larger audience, stuff like this sells. Probably intentional.


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post #42 of 68 Old 10-19-2012
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Re: Team Oracle Boat Capsizes

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Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
No doubt, stuff breaks on the "bleeding edge" - and every time this discussion comes up, someone trots out that same video. The difference, of course, is that that was a structural issue, not a design issue. Both the 45s and now the 72 has/have had unrecoverable and/or catastrophic capsizes in recent months. Adding a bit more carbon fiber around the chainplates is not going to fix that.

I am not making any broader critique of catamarans here. They definitely have their strong points. I'm just saying that the dynamics of big cat races are more problematic on TV, which is what really counts. Aside from the things I've already mentioned, there's the problem of broadcast delays if these boats can only race in ideal conditions, which now looks entirely likely.
In part I posted that because I am tired of those (not you) that take the "lucky no one was killed" stance. If a crewman had been below, wrestling with a chute, he could have been in a dicey spot indeed. Not likely, and neither is serious injury on a cat with experienced crew. Could happen, they know that, and it's racing. So in both cases the argument is silly.

So in fact, I don't understand the second part either. It's racing and it's the America's cup and they are pushing the envelop to the very limit. Thank God.

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post #43 of 68 Old 10-19-2012
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Re: Team Oracle Boat Capsizes

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Originally Posted by jaschrumpf View Post
These international competitions in million-dollar boats with high tech gear bore me. What these races should do is put the teams in identical production boats, give 'em a day to get acquainted with them and then race them.

There should be multiple races, with the sailors in J-22s, Hobie 16s and dinghys. Now that would be fun to watch.
Yeah, just imagine how much more exciting the Grand Prix of Monaco would be, if they ran it in rental cars, instead...

That harbor would REALLY be jam-packed with megayachts, to watch that one... (grin)

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post #44 of 68 Old 10-19-2012
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Re: Team Oracle Boat Capsizes

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Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
In part I posted that because I am tired of those (not you) that take the "lucky no one was killed" stance. If a crewman had been below, wrestling with a chute, he could have been in a dicey spot indeed. Not likely, and neither is serious injury on a cat with experienced crew. Could happen, they know that, and it's racing. So in both cases the argument is silly.

So in fact, I don't understand the second part either. It's racing and it's the America's cup and they are pushing the envelop to the very limit. Thank God.

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No, I wouldn't go cruising in one.
I'm afraid I am going to have to disappoint you. Falling 70 feet to the water (quite possibly through the rigging) during a pitchpole is not safe. I think everyone at Oracle is aware of that. They were falling all over themselves to let us know everyone was "safe."
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post #45 of 68 Old 10-19-2012
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Re: Team Oracle Boat Capsizes

Yacht racing is dangerous and should be banned.

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post #46 of 68 Old 10-19-2012
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Re: Team Oracle Boat Capsizes

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Yacht racing is dangerous and should be banned.
A good old false equivalency is always welcome to shut down the debate.
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post #47 of 68 Old 10-19-2012
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Re: Team Oracle Boat Capsizes

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Over the weekend I was watching the 45's when Coutt's boat did a nose dive into the water. The stern rose up in the air but somehow they were able to turn it on its side, but the crew was hanging on for dear life. It looked like one or two went into the water.
Somehow the mast didn't snap when it hit and they turned it back over after the other boats had cleared. It was racing the next day. Spithill won, Coutts came in second.
It looks like the 72's aren't quite as sturdy.
I vote for Ellsion to take the $8-10 mil he has to spend on another boat and donate it to the SailNetters boat fund.
If you are referring to the capsize in the Aug World Series Fleet race, it was actually Spithill (#4). I know because it happened right in front of me.
Every capsize/pitch poll I have seen with the ac boats (including the 72) ends with the boat on its side (not endo). I can only assume it has something to do with the wing. In any case, it's fortunate, as it reduces the distance a crew member falls. Still...5 stories on the 72!
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Re: Team Oracle Boat Capsizes

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I put a video of the capsize up in the AC72 thread in the Racing section. She was foiling - but as the leeward hull lifted onto the foil, the windward bow sagged down, eventually digging in which brought the leeward hull down and under.
Lots of talk about the design being wrong - allowing too much twist between the hulls.
It looks like it was foiling to me as well. Seems like a bad time to foil as you are falling off, loading the bow into a stiff Ebb. It appears that they have no control over the foils. Foiling is simply a result of having the dagger board down and enough boat speed (just guessing here). Funny you mention the twist between the hulls. A few weeks ago I saw a AC video of the second run of USA 17 (the 72). I was stunned by the movement between the hulls. I thought: "That looks dicey to me...but then, what do I know about multi hulls?"
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Re: Team Oracle Boat Capsizes

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Many other points against having gone to cats, IMHO. Firstly, the necessity to move away from crew power and toward powered winches, etc., is a big time violation of the spirit of this race. Yeah, I know, Dylan went electric, too. Not the same thing. Secondly, is that it nearly destroys the AC's (admittedly slim) chance of becoming any kind of spectator sport. Under normal race conditions, chances are the boats will be so mismatched or belabor a penalty for so long (because the cats are so lousy to tack) that the competitors will only rarely be in the same camera shot. That's what happened last time. Tacking duels, arguably the most exciting part of any top-end mono hull race? Gone. So, the only excitement left is a catastrophic capsize. Great, now you've attracted people to a sailing race for the same reason they go to see NASCAR.
I know that the Tri (USA 17) that won the last AC had motorized winches. After all, the wing on that monster was 230 feet (if memory serves) so it couldn't even sail under the SF Bay Bridge at 210! Have you seen any indication that anything is motorized on the 72's. I hope not. I agree, thats where I draw the line!
You're right, cat's don't maintain momentum in a tack. On the other hand, they get back up to speed in about two boat lengths. When you see it in person, the acceleration is breath taking. Have you seen the tacking duels with the 45's? In the "same shot"? They fly hulls OVER each other while crossing, doing 20-25 Knots! How close would you want them, and how much "excitement" do you need?
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Re: Team Oracle Boat Capsizes

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
If they are trying to gain a larger audience, stuff like this sells. Probably intentional.
You mean like "Pro Wrestling"?
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