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can I afford to continue sailing

15K views 115 replies 75 participants last post by  schelli 
#1 ·
So at the end of this season my wife tells me she cant justify the dock fees associated with me having a sailboat and she dosn't think we can afford it next season. I didnt keep track but I'm sure i went out 25 or more times and my dock costs about $1300 for the season. That breaks down to about $50 per outing worth of dock fees. I have to admit when she puts it that way it sounds like a lot of money. I'm your typical middle class 30 something sailor with a wife and 2 young children. I dont make a lot of money but we arent poor either. Now I have about 5 months to get her to change her mind on this or were going to have a seroius disagreement. I'm not willing to give up sailing. After my father passed 4 years ago at 61 I decided that if i keep waiting for the right time to own a boat, I might wait forever. He died never setting foot on a sailboat and always dreaming of doing so. I also want my children to know the freedom of sailing. When they become adults they can make their own informed decision on weather they want to partake in my love affair with the water. Its not a money thing. Its a priority thing. I'm looking for some advise on changing her mind. I'm also willing to make consessions like go to a Mooring rather than a dock to roughly cut my costs in half if I can find one here in Buffalo N.Y. Anyone in the area that has any suggestions on where to go that would be helpful too.
 

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#31 ·
Our backgrounds sound close enough that I could be in the same situation as you, but I'm very fortunate to have gotten the opposite result. We bought our first boat back in April, and I've been overjoyed to find that my wife has really enthusiastically embraced it. She is not a "water person" but she does enjoy being outside and we've gotten that in spades.

When we bought the boat we agreed to a two-year trial period: we'd try it out and see if we really used it or if it just sat at the dock. Well, we've been using it a little less than you and paying a little more for the slip, which has added up to a very enjoyable season for our family.

But you have to face facts: an expenditure of that sort requires a two-person agreement, in my opinion and in my understanding of what a marriage is. If I was in your situation I would use a two-pronged approach:

1. Explain to your wife that you love sailing on a visceral level, and it makes you happy to HAVE a boat even when you are not ON the boat.

2. Discuss the money situation and see if there is some sort of quid-pro-quo. Could she do something she likes at similar cost? Is there a house project that she could get in exchange (patio, bathroom remodel, etc?)

If she puts her foot down...well, I don't have any advice for you. Best of luck.
 
#36 ·
Let me guess - she doesn't like sailing. :D

Have you ever noticed how many things are advertised with the comment "Wife says must sell"?

Have you EVER seen an ad with "Husband says must sell"?

Keep the boat, sell the wife. :)

Or do like I did - marry a girl who keeps saying "We need a bigger boat than this" until YOU finally say "Sorry dear, I can't handle a boat bigger than this".
 
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#37 · (Edited)
Whats about getting a mooring Ball? You may be able to save some money and keep the boat....I would click my heels if I found that price in my area, that is mooring ball money for me.

Also what about cutting something else that you dont get much use out of...I mean we, for instance, cut our cable package down to a lower package in the summer months because we arent home as much..do we need to...no..but it saves us $200 over the course of 3.5 months....long story short I dont pretend to know your situation but Id bet you can cut some expenses that you wont miss at all and get real close to what that slip fee costs you.
 
#38 ·
Welllll... let me preface this by saying my last marriage cost me oh around 400k....and gi a few more for miscellaneous fees. Was working nearly 6 days a week for 3+ years except for sundays, with 5 extra days off a year......I was killing myself....tried to explain that to the ex....well......she was more concerned about her security than my deteriorating health......anyway...it went very slowly and painfully.........Many times my thought was I would rather live in a tent on a muddy field than in the situation I was in.....so....Your dad had a dream and never had a chance.....you have a dream....started to live it and then....1,300 comes in the way of that...hmmm...what on earth can you get for 1,300 a year that is gonna replace the feeling??? More important what does she want that 1,300 for????? Some serious miscommunication is going on...and....with two small chillen' the courts are gonna rape you.....cactus style......ex friends and families are gonna too...... So what to do? Stand your ground? Kowtow? my advice...look for a way to find out the real issue that your wife is not telling you.....then see what the real cards are and play it the best you can. $1,300 is peanuts......but a person who is a miserable drain on your life is coyote ugly. (U would chew your arm off the morning after you slept with her just to get away) Sometimes the wrong one is just that the wrong one.....but I have to believe there are other issues besides 1,300.........good luck!
 
#39 ·
Not enough info.

Ask for advice to reduce cost, if you like. Your idea of a mooring is a good one. I also like the trailerable boat idea.

But asking how to change her mind is impossible. We don't know her or why she believes your family can't afford what you are spending. I suspect there is something else she thinks you should be spending the money on. Is there?
 
#42 ·
a. My wife has learned I am much easier to live with if I get a certain number of hours of play. I will also work harder, without complaint.

b. We look at the boat cost as a part of our vacation spending. Air fare and lodging at a decent resort in a far away place put a pretty fair dent in the wallet too, and yet time spent someplace special with the kids can generate lasting memories too.

---Yup, it's always about choises. Yet we've passed the 20 year mark because we each get to make choises. When I was younger and had smaller finances I had smaller boats, now a bit more, but I wouldn't regret moving back down much and probably will when I get tired of the bigger boat.
 
#43 ·
Find a friend who wants to sail, have them share expenses with you. Voila! Find 2, sail free. Find 4, start building up an account for an upgrade. get friends you enjoy being with and sail together! If she doesn't like sailing, and then is bitter you are having fun weekends, the kids will enjoy the weekends dad has visitation...
 
#44 · (Edited)
"After my father passed 4 years ago at 61 I decided that if i keep waiting for the right time to own a boat, I might wait forever. He died never setting foot on a sailboat and always dreaming of doing so. I also want my children to know the freedom of sailing." -ABH3 Boyer

Based on what you wrote here, I don't think you have a choice. This is not about your wife. This is about you and the water and, frankly - dreams and mortality. For what it's worth, I am the same and will do what I have to do. God chose to make us a sailors and we will sail. So sail. Apologize if you have to, but sail your boat. We will all be dead soon enough and then it won't matter.
 
#47 ·
Now I have about 5 months to get her to change her mind on this or were going to have a seroius disagreement.
You're going about this the wrong way. Your goal shouldn't be to get her to change her mind, it should be to show her why you enjoy sailing like you do and how knowing sailing can enrich the lives of you, her and your kids.

Taking the family away from all the electronics, creature comforts and distractions we now think are an every day part of life and spending some real quality time together is a great goal. Your time together will become much more enjoyable and fulfilling than any time you can spend ashore.

That your wife objects to the expense tells me she's not getting any enjoyment from the boat. Why not? You need to find that out, the real reason, not just the finances. If she's not coming with you when you sail, you need to figure out a way to open her mind to coming. You also have to show her the joys of sailing and that doesn't mean criticize her because she's not seeing it like you are. You can start with a weekend in the harbor and a little putt-putt along the shore at night. Very romantic! Whatever you do, do it slowly and pay attention to how she reacts. Don't force the issue!

If you sail without her, do you ever take the kids? If not, you should. Even if you never leave the harbor, you will enjoy a lot of quality time with them and get them used to the boat. And if they enjoy that time, your wife will see it and maybe be more open to joining you. Even if she doesn't, you will give her some free time to do what she wants while you have the kids. Women appreciate that. Even if she's completely turned off by sailing, she'll recognize the boat as that place you take the kids enabling her to get her R&R.

The boat has to bring her some pleasure or she'll never be able to justify the cost.
 
#48 ·
The boat is a 26 foot Lugar. I can trailer it and launch it but setting up the mast every time I wanted to go sailing would take an hour out of a 4 hour sailing trip. I live only about 10 minuets from lake Erie. I got the boat for free and overhauled it with the proceeds from the sale of my last boat. As far as making extra money to pay for it I have already made arrangements for that. I'm a carpenter and have enough side jobs already lined up to finance it in full. The problem is that there is always something else that we need and dock fees fall very low on her list of prioritys. Our children like sailing but the wife dosn't. She was a fan of the power boat when we were moving but dosn't like the motion of a sailboat. I havent been able to get her out for more than a few hours and she definately dosn't relax while were underway. I think it might even be a controll thing with her because she dosnt become physically sick and shes not afraid of the water. She was a life guard for many years and can swim circles around me. I also spend money on nothing else. I'm the kind of guy that will wear a pair of shoes until there are holes in them.
 

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#52 ·
Our children like sailing but the wife dosn't.
You're in a tough place......

When I met my wife I was living on my powerboat. I started a business 6 months later & moved into an apartment which lead to a couple of houses. My wife grew up in a powerboat family & hates sailing.

I have always been around or out on the water since I was a kid & have always wanted a sailboat. My wife knew that upfront before she married me.

After 26 years of marriage Ruth told me if I bought a sailboat I might as well call it "Ruth Less".

Whatever you say dear......
 
#53 · (Edited)
First of all, who is bringing in the money in the home? If it's just you or just her or both of you I would say it changes things quite a bit.

How much is $1300 a year worth to you? If you're bringing in $25,000 a year and sailing is something you love then it's worth it. Still, it's always a good idea to cuts costs whenever you can. If you can double the number of times you go out you can cut each trip in half. If you can find someone else who has a similar boating interest he can use your boat too and help pay for some of the expenses. You're only using it once a week, so all he has to do is call you up the day before and ask if it is available tomorrow. If you don't call him back then it's assumed that you aren't using it and he can go out. So many boats sit most of the year it's amazing.

And most important of all: I don't know your situation, but I know that a lot of people tend to live beyond their means. Their income can go from $20,000 a year to $40,000 a year and they still won't have extra cash to spend because they got carried away and bought a much more expensive house, and 2 new cars, and all the other stuff that people buy but don't really need.

So, the problem may not be that the boat is too expensive, the real problem is that you got a $20,000 car new instead of a $3000 used one, a house that is too expensive, and you're paying for a bunch of electronic entertainment equipment that you don't really need. If this sounds like you, and you are the one bringing in the money in the home, I would say sell the cars if they aren't payed for, cancel monthly entertainment payments that you don't need, and downsize the house if you are making payments on it. After than, then you can consider getting rid of the boat.

I like how Dave Ramsey acts on his radio show when a caller tells him that they just bought a new car.

edit: Oh and I forgot, make sure half of your wealth, or a different ratio if you think it would be more just, is not in a bank or titled property before doing any of this. I can sort of understand her talking half in a divorce, but situations where the "wife took everything" are just outrageous.
 
#55 ·
I would never part with a boat I loved. (Though I've parted a few girlfriends who didn't like sailing...but that's a different matter)
I think one of the most important things you can remind your wife of is that kids and boats are a great mix. You can get your kids into little league or soccer or just about any other mainstream sport. But in all probability, they won't go near that sport after high school. Sailing is a life-long sport. Whether they are mucking about in an Opti, cruising with the folks, or showing your grandchildren the joys of the sport, they will reap its rewards their whole lives.
I am thankful every day that my father introduced me to sailing. It's how I met my wife, and now she's decided we need a bigger boat so we can spend even more time on the water together.
Maybe you can think of a way to help your wife enjoy sailing more; go out only on calm days with her and make sure she has some Champagne to drink while you're out. Encourage the kids to fall asleep below while you enjoy each others company. Make it a rule to only talk about positive things on the boat. Sailing could be one of the things you do on your "date night." And there'd be no babysitter to worry about.
Unfortunately for our family, my mother hated sailing, or maybe just used it to try to put a wedge between my father and his children. We enjoyed many happy cruises with our father, but sad to say, my mother died alone and bitter.
 
#58 ·
Wow. I think I'd go slow on the "dump her, keep the boat" advice. In my own life, preserving my family comes first. What comes second is the tough question, is it work/security?; is it friendships?; is it having a boat?; a car?; a motorcycle?" I don't know, to each his/her own. I had to wait until my early 50s to get the boat because of the realities of my life. Would I have liked to have had it earlier? Yes. Do I resent it? No more than a handful of other things that I would like to have or do, but haven't been able to yet. But that is the composition of life - achieving some sort of balance. Only you and your wife know where the red line of insurmountable resentment lies in your relationship. We sometimes think we have bumped up against it, but I'd take the winter to make sure.
 
#59 ·
Okay, this is coming from a wife’s point of view and I may be COMPLETELY off track but I have a few questions about your post:

First you say, “So at the end of this season my wife tells me she cant justify the dock fees associated with ME having a sailboat and she dosn't think WE can afford it next season . . . I went out 25 or more times . . .” Did you just fall into the first person on the sailing part or is this a family adventure? Are you using the sailboat alone? If so she may be feeling as if your hobby is taking both funds and time from the family, and with two small children I can imagine she’d appreciate your spare time being spent at home. If this is family adventure, then ignore everything I just said.

Second, you say, “. Now I have about 5 months to get her to change her mind on this or were going to have a serious disagreement. I'm not willing to give up sailing.” I understand your passion and please understand that this is coming from a woman who’s jumped through hoops to keep her husband sailing because that’s his passion as well. But marriage is a partnership and neither of you should be coming to the discussion with a refusal to budge—not unless you’re willing to break up the partnership.

Have you discussed your family budget? Are there bills that aren’t being paid because of your hobby? Are there necessary purchases (new car to replace a junker, shoes for the kids, paint for the house, etc) that aren’t being made because of your hobby? Don’t get me wrong—it’s fine to sacrifice for a dream but sacrifice is tough if you don’t share the dream. You mention the dock fees but I think we all know that’s far from the only expense for a boat owner. Take a realistic look at what you’re spending on this hobby before you have a budget discussion and be sure to include time away from your family (if any).

Oh—and I read the rest of the chain before posting this and found that she doesn’t like sailing. I agree with the posters who suggested that heeling doesn’t endear a newbie, particularly one with small children in the boat to worry about. And please don’t suggest to her that she’s controlling you if she complains about heeling, because she very likely feels exactly that way about you—that you’ve talked her into coming along and then won’t consider her feelings and put a proper reef in the main. And yes, that is an issue for me and I’ll never understand why my husband insists on making me sail with fear when it would be just as easy to add a reef and both of us enjoy the sail. Of course, that may not be the issue with you and forgive my little rant if it’s not. :)

Good luck.
 
#70 ·
Okay, this is coming from a wife's point of view and I may be COMPLETELY off track but I have a few questions about your post:

First you say, "So at the end of this season my wife tells me she cant justify the dock fees associated with ME having a sailboat and she dosn't think WE can afford it next season . . . I went out 25 or more times . . ." Did you just fall into the first person on the sailing part or is this a family adventure? Are you using the sailboat alone? If so she may be feeling as if your hobby is taking both funds and time from the family, and with two small children I can imagine she'd appreciate your spare time being spent at home. If this is family adventure, then ignore everything I just said.

Second, you say, ". Now I have about 5 months to get her to change her mind on this or were going to have a serious disagreement. I'm not willing to give up sailing." I understand your passion and please understand that this is coming from a woman who's jumped through hoops to keep her husband sailing because that's his passion as well. But marriage is a partnership and neither of you should be coming to the discussion with a refusal to budge-not unless you're willing to break up the partnership.

Have you discussed your family budget? Are there bills that aren't being paid because of your hobby? Are there necessary purchases (new car to replace a junker, shoes for the kids, paint for the house, etc) that aren't being made because of your hobby? Don't get me wrong-it's fine to sacrifice for a dream but sacrifice is tough if you don't share the dream. You mention the dock fees but I think we all know that's far from the only expense for a boat owner. Take a realistic look at what you're spending on this hobby before you have a budget discussion and be sure to include time away from your family (if any).

Oh-and I read the rest of the chain before posting this and found that she doesn't like sailing. I agree with the posters who suggested that heeling doesn't endear a newbie, particularly one with small children in the boat to worry about. And please don't suggest to her that she's controlling you if she complains about heeling, because she very likely feels exactly that way about you-that you've talked her into coming along and then won't consider her feelings and put a proper reef in the main. And yes, that is an issue for me and I'll never understand why my husband insists on making me sail with fear when it would be just as easy to add a reef and both of us enjoy the sail. Of course, that may not be the issue with you and forgive my little rant if it's not. :)

Good luck.
Wow. A lot of good female persective there.
 
#60 ·
Boy, so many good perspectives here. I understand your father's dream and these are the kinds of things spouses can understand, so you want to be sure that she is aware of that. The fact that you have a way to pay for the fees, yet something for the kids always comes up and the slip fees just don't come up high in her list of priorities also makes sense -- whether I agree with that or not.

Here's a silly question: If you were to have a powerboat instead of a sailboat and it had the same slip fees, would those fees suddenly move up in your wife's list of priorities? If so, then the whole motion of the sailboat might be one reason for her objections. As many have said, you are not going to convince her of anything, because it may not be a financial issue. And the only way to find out what is behind all of this is to talk about it more deeply than perhaps you already have.

Even for someone relatively young with young kids, your fees don't seem so outrageous to me, at least not for the potential pleasure you and your kids get from sailing.

And here's some really outrageous advice (that if I were in your place I wouldn't do because of the purchase cost) get a MacGregor 26 or a Hunter Edge; they both provide the chance to move straight out with their engines like a powerboat, yet can also sail. Sure, they're a compromise, and people just love to bash the MacGregors on most sites (mine's a 25), though I would suspect for many of us, the difference in performance isn't so noticeable.

Good luck. We'd hate to lose you from our little fraternity/ sorority on the water!:cool:
 
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