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So at the end of this season my wife tells me she cant justify the dock fees associated with me having a sailboat and she dosn't think we can afford it next season. I didnt keep track but I'm sure i went out 25 or more times and my dock costs about $1300 for the season. That breaks down to about $50 per outing worth of dock fees. I have to admit when she puts it that way it sounds like a lot of money. I'm your typical middle class 30 something sailor with a wife and 2 young children. I dont make a lot of money but we arent poor either. Now I have about 5 months to get her to change her mind on this or were going to have a seroius disagreement. I'm not willing to give up sailing. After my father passed 4 years ago at 61 I decided that if i keep waiting for the right time to own a boat, I might wait forever. He died never setting foot on a sailboat and always dreaming of doing so. I also want my children to know the freedom of sailing. When they become adults they can make their own informed decision on weather they want to partake in my love affair with the water. Its not a money thing. Its a priority thing. I'm looking for some advise on changing her mind. I'm also willing to make consessions like go to a Mooring rather than a dock to roughly cut my costs in half if I can find one here in Buffalo N.Y. Anyone in the area that has any suggestions on where to go that would be helpful too.
we obnly go once around this hampster wheel so you have to grab everything while you can
you wife first: remind her that you ge tendless pleasure from the boat even when you are not on it. Just as thinking about her makes you happy so thinking about the boat makes you happy as well. Value cannot be measured in days or hours
the boat: a smaller boat - a trailer sailer can be great value and you can sail in different places. the tow vehicle thing can be problem but over here you can rent a van for ÂŁ40 a day to tow the boat. Or get a mooring and tow a decent sized dinghy -
above all... don't give up on the sailing - it is the fourth most important thing in the world to you after her and the two kids
We always find way to enjoy the things we love. Wife, kids, job, SAILING. I am over 60, and my wife does not go sailing, but we make it work. I've gone on some good sailing trips whine she remained at home. We worked it out. My first wife and I could not work things out (nothing to do with sailing) so after about 4 years of disagreements we parted ways. We all nee to sail our own boat.
$100 a month to enable you to show your kids an alternative to living in front of a computer screeen,
Sounds reasonable. Sounds like you are married to a control freak of the consumer religion type. (Conformity Taliban)
Stand your ground, and maintain some control over what is your own life. If you dont , it will eventually disolve anyway with even greater anger and resentment.
When i first started sailing I had a trailer-able boat. I was astonished at how inexpensive it was to keep and maintain. I learned a ton on that boat, and the whole family had fun on it.
I love the boat I have now, but it an order of magnitude more expensive to keep and maintain it.
I'd consider finding a trailer sailer on the upper end, and find a marina that lets you keep the boat rigged, on the trailer, in a storage area. a little less convenient, a lot less expensive.
And get that larger boat (and slip fee) when the kids are older.
I'm in a similar situation (30s, married, young kid, not rich), but my wife so far has been supportive of the boat.
We justify the cost of owning the boat in a few ways. For one, spending the weekend on the boat is pretty cheap entertainment. We pack our food and spend zero money once we leave the mooring. Next summer we plan to take about 10 days and cruise our local waters, whereas before the boat we'd spend a few thousand on a summer vacation somewhere.
Perhaps even more important, it's a way to do something fun together as a family. Wife is not crazy about sailing itself, but she does love spending a weekend as a family on the boat. Consequently, a day on the boat with the family might only entail a few hours of sailing, and many more hours at anchor swimming, reading, relaxing, etc.
Maybe that will give you some ideas to work with.... Good luck!
My wife enjoys it sometimes and tolerates it all the time because members of her family and our kids enjoy trips on the boat. As long as that is the case and the boat attracts others to come back and spend time with us, she consents. If you haven't had her family or friends aboard on a nice day, you should (and then, they need to express a desire to go again next season). If the kids aren't hooked, work on that. Good luck.
$1,300 for a slip is short money, we pay close to that for a mooring.
Be carefull, this is how it starts, next thing you know you've got no boat, no house...
Like Brent said:
"Stand your ground, and maintain some control over what is your own life. If you dont , it will eventually disolve anyway with even greater anger and resentment.
"Stand your ground" is not the approach I'd take. I wouldn't give in, either, but don't approach this as a confrontation- a good wife is hard to find and divorces are more expensive than dock fees. Discuss it.
You are both right. It's impossible to justify sailing from an economic standpoint. It's an expensive thing to do. However, if you spend your life worrying only about money and not enjoying what you're doing, it's wasted.
Convince her that you are mindful of what it costs and you try to economize as much as you can, but sailing is too important to you to give up and the two of you need to find a way to make it happen.
Maybe if she gives up new clothes for 6 months?
I dont think I would define "A good wife" as someone who considers your ambitions and dreams, irrellevant ,and considers you just a stepping stone to her ambitions.
first: at quiet moments sit wistfully staring into space.... make sure she spots you and asks you waht you were doing.... thinking about sailing is the answer
second: buy sailing books from amazon for $1 each. Leave them around the house. read passages out. buy some childrens sailing books,read them to the children
third: watch sailing films on you tube with the volume turned up
some of mine have just music with them - this a good one
if she hears it a couple of times she is bound to ask what it is
first: at quiet moments sit wistfully staring into space.... make sure she spots you and asks you waht you were doing.... thinking about sailing is the answer
second: buy sailing books from amazon for $1 each. Leave them around the house. read passages out. buy some childrens sailing books,read them to the children
third: watch sailing films on you tube with the volume turned up
some of mine have just music with them - this a good one
if she hears it a couple of times she is bound to ask what it is
well this is not about sailing but about marriage. I married two times and the last one is going on for more than 25 years so I guess I know one or two things about that and one of the more important is that you cannot let go what is really important for you and the same applies to your wife.
If someone let go something that is really important that regret is going to bit hard on your life and it will be the sub-conscious motive for a lot of bitterness that will poison your relationship and can even end with your marriage.
So, think well if sailing is that important to you and if it is, you cannot put a price tag on it (providing you can afford it as a life choice) and should tell that to your wife. Of course, as someone as said, be prepared to compromise on other things
well this is not about sailing but about marriage...
If someone let go something that is really important that regret is going to bit hard on your life and it will be the sub-conscious motive for a lot of bitterness that will poison your relationship and can even end with your marriage...
As a twice-married divorce lawyer who talks to many spouses about their marital difficulties, I believe Paulo has nailed this one. Tread softly, this is about your SOUL and your right to independence in your legal union. A spouse who strangles her spouse's soul ends up in marital unhappiness and eventual divorce.
You are trying to rationalize the cost as reasonable recreational expense. As some have pointed out, you will never succeed with that approach. There is a hidden agenda here, perhaps your wife's belief that you should be bringing in more income or that you need to pay more attention to her needs and less to your own.
Sailing is a fundamentally impractical and unnecessary expense. You need to communicate to your wife what this really means to you, including the irrational dream that your father passed down to you. You also need to discuss the idea that although you are married to each other, each of you has the right to an independent life within that relationship. You might both be happier with some independence from each other.
It could be a control issue and you can either submit or detach. Marital counselling is always a good idea to save a marriage. I hope you are able to solve this problem.
You have to get the cost per trip down. I recomend you go sailing more often. If you go sailing 50 times instead of 25 times per season you cut your costs per trip in half.
We don't know enough about your finances, and your family to be able to offer concrete advice. It sounds like you're already considering cutting costs. That is where I would start.
I will however offer an anecdote. Buying my sailboat is the one and only significant financial decision that my wife and I have disagreed on during our 23 years together. I went ahead and bought the boat and am glad I did. We've had the boat for 11 years now and while she is not an avid sailor will join me on occaision. I keep telling her it's the only thing that keeps me sane, especially after I've had a particularly stressful stretch at work. She now appreciates how much enjoyment I've gotten out of the boat. We've had great family sailing weekends, that the kids who are now in college will always remember. For me, it was the right decision, only you can answer the question on how much you should spend on your sailiing habit.
Hmmm...look at this as a chance to come together to work something out. Do not be confrontational. Ask her questions.
You'll never justify keeping the boat if you look at it from a financial standpoint. The only people who can do that are commercial fishermen and captains for hire.
Think about how to justify it emotionally, mentally, physically. Sailing keeps you active. It keeps you from the bars. It gives you a chance to appreciate what you have. It gives you a chance to appreciate things she goes without so you can do something you enjoy so much. It's your "alone time".Compare it to a hobby of hers that she really enjoys. "Sailing lets my mind relax just like how you need to be able to _____."
Things to think about:
Do you have a bunch of hobbies and she only has one or two?
Is there something else you can give up that you don't like as much to help meet a financial obligation?
Assuming she's the one balancing the budget, is it so close that it's stressful for her and she'd like breathing room?
What does she want to do with the extra money?
How much attention have you been giving her?
Is she feeling neglected?
Many women will bend over backwards for their loved ones if they feel cherished and appreciated. That's your first order of business if you've been slacking in that department.
Have her take a weeks vacation in annapolis md where you enroll her in a womens sailing coarse taught by women for women. If you can get her hooked life will be great
Great idea!
I am neihter Commercial fisherman nor captain for hire, but without my boat, my cost of living would go up exponentially. She pays for herself every 6 months, for what she cost me. That is the case with many liveaboards.
$1,300 for a slip is short money, we pay close to that for a mooring.
Be carefull, this is how it starts, next thing you know you've got no boat, no house...
Like Brent said:
"Stand your ground, and maintain some control over what is your own life. If you dont , it will eventually disolve anyway with even greater anger and resentment.-misfits
I am afraid this is shortsighted. Relationships are not about drawung lines. Every action has and equal and opposite reaction. Try and win her over.[/
Stand your ground" is not the approach I'd take. I wouldn't give in, either, but don't approach this as a confrontation- a good wife is hard to find and divorces are more expensive than dock fees. Discuss it.
You are both right. It's impossible to justify sailing from an economic standpoint. It's an expensive thing to do. However, if you spend your life worrying only about money and not enjoying what you're doing, it's wasted.
Convince her that you are mindful of what it costs and you try to economize as much as you can, but sailing is too important to you to give up and the two of you need to find a way to make it happen-mssmith10
Agree 100% Find the positives and explain they are not measurable by price. The large amount this costs in percentage to your income now, will not be the same percentage when you make more in 10 yeras, but the time and experiences you get as a FAMILY on the boat wont be able to be measured by the expense.
sailing teaches kids confidence, nature and the outside, famuily time together in simple settings as well as the actual sailing. It also helps bond you, and your wife and family together in a family activity for all ages.
I'm about a decade or so older than you and I also have a young child, but no boat. The finances of getting a boat are a hot topic in my little family as well. I am in a boat club, and the monthly dues and boat rental fees are not insignificant there either.
Honestly, the price you are paying for a seasonal slip should be doable. Negociate with your wife some other expense-cutting for the boat cost, it shouldn't even have to total the exact amount unless you are having a serious financial crisis.
We could all have more money if we never went anywhere or did anything other than work and chores while wearing clothes from yard sales, but I don't think anyone lives like that if they can help it. Some money is going to get spent for fun - if the boat is important, then try to make it work. At least you have a working boat, presumably paid for and in serviceable condition, which is a pretty good chunk of the puzzle solved.
In my case I have to figure the math on paying for a nice used boat, then getting it up to standard, as any used boat will likely have deferred maintenance issues, and then figure the annual expenses both quantifiable and estimated. You are well ahead of me on this issue, which is not something to walk away from lightly.
As others have written, try to keep the confrontation to a minimum, respect the budgetary concernes of you spouse but dont throw away a good thing for the sake of saving little. After all, what will replace the boat on summer weekends - car trips? restaurant outings? Nothing is free, and you will want to do something with your family, which may make keeping the boat not much more expensive than doing something else.
Forgive my rambling, but I have been thinking about this too much myself...
I used to build racecars so I've seen it all when it comes to the "wife says".
I say stand your ground.
I saw a friend lose his dream car. His wife wanted a new Prius and she made him sell his '64 1/2 Mustang and he got stuck with a 15 year old Honda and she got the new Prius. Next to go was his wood working tools so she could have more room in the garage to store useless ****. Then he had to give up softball to spend more time with the kids when she went back to school. Now he's a miserable housewife and she's gone all the time chasing HER dreams.
It's a 2 way street. You need something too.
I had another friend sell a real 1973 RS Porsche about 10 years ago for $45,000.00 so she could get a new kitchen. The car's worth over $300,000 now and she needs a new kitchen again.
Thank god ,even in my youth, with my brain awash in mentally disabling hormones , I could still see such parasitic users coming a mile away, despite the wishful thinking , hormonally driven temptation to live in a romantic fantasy world.
I'd find out what the real issue is? You are only getting.. half the information.
Remember that men are from mars, women are from venus. So, my translation is that she has another, in her mind, better use for that $1300. I'd find out what she has in mind for the $1300. Once you have all the information, then you can see if you can work out a solution that's mutually beneficial. Do you have a way to earn the additional $1300. ?
Or cut some personal expense to make it up?
I'm also hearing that it's YOUR boat, I didn't get the impression that she goes sailing with you. Why is that? I hear you talking about taking the kids sailing....is this a fear thing? or a financial thing? Have you had the kids on the boat? How does that go?
Like I said.... not enough information... I wouldn't do anything until I had all the facts.
My wife pretty much came to HATE sailing on are J24 and i can not say i blame her as it became a PITA boat as we aged from a comfort standpoint
On the other hand she LOVES the Cal 29 and so does everybody else that you could NOT PAY to go out on the J24
We are both much more happy and spend far more time together sailing than we ever have as the Cal performs well enough for me and its stable manners just make it FUN and SHE actuality plans overnight trips now as she enjoys getting away in a boat that has reasonable comforts
and to the op you really don't need a lot of money to boat. if your alright with the boat looking a little ugly you can get away with out paying a lot. i got the free boat this year. and only paid for some gas and some new lines. im about $200 into the boat for the whole season so far.
Something you can try is finding out if your marina will do half seasons? You can launch her in July and might save close to half. I know some marinas on Lake Michigan will do month by month slip rentals too.
We had to take a break for 3 yrs from boating until the $$ was saved and it made since to do it again. So maybe think about taking a year off?
As some have mentioned already, take your family vacations on the boat. Instead of flying to Disney Land or spring break in FL. That alone will save you more than enough to keep the boat in the slip.
Anyone here giving advice on how to deal with your wife is just silly. You know her, they don't. Do what's best for your kids. I the end they are all that matters. Not you, not her and certainly not the "BOAT".
Tell her you are going to take up golfing, then tell her what the green's fees are. Or skiing and tell her the price of a lift ticket. Hell,,,$50 is my usual bar tab...and don't even think of asking me to give that up.
Boats are a totally ridiculous expenditure that cannot be justified on the level of finances alone.
That said... I am very happy w/ the boat I bought last winter after looking and looking and looking and dreaming and thinking and...
While I had owned smaller trailer sailors and had crewed on larger boats and even was in a small private club of owners (we owned 3 30' boats) I wanted a boat that was MINE. Mine to rig, sail, care for the way I wanted to. I spend endless hours thinking about what I want to do, how I want to rig stuff and lots of time just puttering around on the boat.
Now granted my kids are 21 and 18 and also don't live we me any more. But I remarried last year and have been working 6 day weeks since...how long now?
The ADMIRAL loves sailing and even took a JWorld class this fall to get better.
The point of this rambling post is that from a dollars only approach the boat is not a good deal. It's the intangibles you get from owning the boat that make it worthwhile. As I've commented, most of the boat owners live a lifestyle in that sailing is just part of owning. Maintenance, comradery w/ your dock mates, IMPROVED attitude towards the responsibilities of life, work, family and home...
As also noted, if wifey doesn't support you in your endeavors (within reason) maybe it's time to take a look at your relationship. And as also noted, what does she think you should do w/ that $$$?
My ex hated sailing, came to resent me for it (although that was just the symptom, not the cause) and was just a sour person. uke
This time around it's like night and day!
Boats are a totally ridiculous expenditure that cannot be justified on the level of finances alone.
Having my boat has saved me over $240,000 in rent for the time I have lived aboard, not counting the cost of many Pacific crossings and local cruising, plus all accomodations ( compared to hotels) and the difference between cooking my meals on board vs eating out of restaurants, a highly justifiable expense , on "The level of finances alone."
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