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  #141  
Old 10-29-2012
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Re: Halloween Hurricane

Did they abandon a floating ship? Or was it sinking?
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  #142  
Old 10-29-2012
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Re: Halloween Hurricane

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjones View Post
Random question, why are none of us (Chesapeake to NYC) under a trop storm/hurricane watch or warning yet?
The bureaucratic reason can be found here:

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/news/2012102...Transition.pdf

In a nutshell, it's because National Hurricane Center believes that by the time it hits landfall it will no longer be a tropical storm, and thus no longer their responsibility. At that point, National Weather Service takes over, but NWS does not issue Hurricane warnings - only NHC does that.

The whole thing reminds me of this:

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Formerly posted as "RhythmDoctor"
1998 Catalina 250WK Take Five (at Anchorage Marina, Essington, on the Delaware River)
1991 15' Trophy (Lake Wallenpaupack)
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  #143  
Old 10-29-2012
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Re: Halloween Hurricane

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Originally Posted by kjones View Post
Random question, why are none of us (Chesapeake to NYC) under a trop storm/hurricane watch or warning yet?
There will not be a hurricane warning, not even for NYC. The 'new' NHC seemingly exists only to entertain graduate students in a lab class for meteorologists, not to warn ordinary people who foot the bill.

The Hurricane of '38 would probably not be called a hurricane today. Just asinine technicalities that make a distinction never made in the past. Likely there will no longer be "hurricanes" this far north.

I think everyone should write their congressmen and express their disapproval with this nonsense. And with the weather services who absolutely had on their screens the map I posted a full week ago Monday the 22nd on the first post in this thread, showing a major hurricane about to make landfall in the mid Atlantic coast of the USA.

I did not mention but due to pulling my boat and other necessities on Friday the 19th - I expected a storm, just not this big - I didn't have computer access and energy enough to look at models until Sunday/Monday. The models may have been just as clear about this storm before I posted that map. The map is dated Monday 10/22 for 216 hours ahead.

The weather services could certainly say 30-40% chance of major hurricane hitting the center of the east coast, or what ever percent they wanted. We have enough gambling that everyone would understand the risk. They will no doubt say "we don't want to panic people", but waiting till the last minute is the sure way to cause panic. Longer warning would allow stores to get in food, batteries, generators etc and make less panic and more readiness.

Also, people are more serious with a hurricane warning. Just this morning my wife heard the weather and said "So we aren't getting the hurricane?"!!

The ECMWF last I looked showed the storm breaking up once solidly over land, I hope it does. The GFS shows it holding together longer, and is quite accurate when close to the event.
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  #144  
Old 10-29-2012
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Re: Halloween Hurricane

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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post

Your you tube really cracked me up, I laughed out loud a lot!

Thanks for the bright "spot" ("come on boy, here spot") in my morning.
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  #145  
Old 10-29-2012
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Re: Halloween Hurricane

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Originally Posted by JulieMor View Post
Did they abandon a floating ship? Or was it sinking?
Apparently she was still floating:
quote:
"On 29 October 2012, 16 members of the Nova Scotia built Bounty abandoned ship off the coast of North Carolina after getting caught in the high seas brought on by Hurricane Sandy.[14]. The ship sank, according to the Coast Guard at 8:45 a.m. Monday 10-29-12"
(source: wiki)
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  #146  
Old 10-29-2012
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Re: Halloween Hurricane

Quote:
Originally Posted by skygazer View Post
There will not be a hurricane warning, not even for NYC. The 'new' NHC seemingly exists only to entertain graduate students in a lab class for meteorologists, not to warn ordinary people who foot the bill.

The Hurricane of '38 would probably not be called a hurricane today. Just asinine technicalities that make a distinction never made in the past. Likely there will no longer be "hurricanes" this far north.

I think everyone should write their congressmen and express their disapproval with this nonsense. And with the weather services who absolutely had on their screens the map I posted a full week ago Monday the 22nd on the first post in this thread, showing a major hurricane about to make landfall in the mid Atlantic coast of the USA.

I did not mention but due to pulling my boat and other necessities on Friday the 19th - I expected a storm, just not this big - I didn't have computer access and energy enough to look at models until Sunday/Monday. The models may have been just as clear about this storm before I posted that map. The map is dated Monday 10/22 for 216 hours ahead.

The weather services could certainly say 30-40% chance of major hurricane hitting the center of the east coast, or what ever percent they wanted. We have enough gambling that everyone would understand the risk. They will no doubt say "we don't want to panic people", but waiting till the last minute is the sure way to cause panic. Longer warning would allow stores to get in food, batteries, generators etc and make less panic and more readiness.

Also, people are more serious with a hurricane warning. Just this morning my wife heard the weather and said "So we aren't getting the hurricane?"!!

The ECMWF last I looked showed the storm breaking up once solidly over land, I hope it does. The GFS shows it holding together longer, and is quite accurate when close to the event.
Does it really matter what they call it? NYC shut down the subway last night. My sister says there is no public transportation there. I've been reading the NY Times, Wash Post, Phila Inquirer, and Boston Globe every day and Sandy has been in the headlines since at least mid-last week. And remember, it's only been in the last 24-48 hrs that they knew for sure it was not going to turn out to sea. But the projected track has been targeting a hit on the Jersey shore for days now.

Regardless of whether they called it a hurricane, a tropical storm, or a big wet and windy mess, anyone who didn't know there was a good possibility of something bad hitting the mid-Atlantic coast must have been living in a cave. Seems to me that NOAA and the National Hurricane Center have been putting out the information they had and the news media have been reporting it. And local governments have been responding, Gov Christie ordered evacuation of towns around Cape May a few days ago. Hard for me to see what additional information could have been provided.
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  #147  
Old 10-29-2012
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Re: Halloween Hurricane

Quote:
Originally Posted by skygazer View Post
There will not be a hurricane warning, not even for NYC. The 'new' NHC seemingly exists only to entertain graduate students in a lab class for meteorologists, not to warn ordinary people who foot the bill.

The Hurricane of '38 would probably not be called a hurricane today. Just asinine technicalities that make a distinction never made in the past. Likely there will no longer be "hurricanes" this far north...
Well, as a Canuck, my taxes don't support the NHC, but I sure use and appreciate their resources! And my taxes DO support the Canadian Hurricane Centre, even though we apparently don't get hurricanes this far north (guess I should ask for a tax rebate )! Whether it is called a hurricane, a post-tropical storm, a typhoon or a cyclone, I don't want to be unprepared for FORCE 12 conditions (what the Beaufort Scale defines as a HURRICANE). Yep, Beaufort makes no mention of storm's thermal engine source, just the kind of conditions: "Huge waves. Sea is completely white with foam and spray. Air is filled with driving spray, greatly reducing visibility...Very widespread damage to vegetation. Some windows may break; mobile homes and poorly constructed sheds and barns are damaged. Debris and unsecured objects are hurled about." Sounds like a hurricane to me. Maybe we should go back to using the Beaufort Scale and put up the those red flags with the black square!

BTW, here in Nova Scotia, more than 600 nautical miles NE of the Hurricane Sandy, we are getting easterly gales of 35 kt. - this is a huge storm!

Last edited by jimjazzdad; 10-29-2012 at 12:22 PM.
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  #148  
Old 10-29-2012
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Re: Halloween Hurricane

I wonder if it will matter to insurance companies in terms of covering haul out expenses. Don't most policies have a clause that they will only cover haul out if hurricane/trop storm watch or warning has been issued for the area? If no official warning or watch is issued, could insurance companies hide behind that technicality to not reimburse those who haul?
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  #149  
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Re: Halloween Hurricane

If the National Hurricane Center and the weather services were not busy playing games with our tax dollars, the Bounty would have clearly known the risks - it was Thursday for heavens sake. They were in New London, CT. If you haven't been there, it's sheltered and deep, deep enough for HUGE tankers to go way up river.

The navy ships going out to sea are not in the same league as Bounty. They draw much more water, big ships have foundered in the past when huge waves allowed them to touch bottom in a deep trough. Bounty would be in no such danger in the Thames river.
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  #150  
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Re: Halloween Hurricane

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjones View Post
I wonder if it will matter to insurance companies in terms of covering haul out expenses. Don't most policies have a clause that they will only cover haul out if hurricane/trop storm watch or warning has been issued for the area? If no official warning or watch is issued, could insurance companies hide behind that technicality to not reimburse those who haul?
I'm no expert, but I believe insurance companies are "old fashioned" enough that if it's a named storm, they are with it to the end.

Of course, for a few billion they may wish to modernize.
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