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  #21  
Old 10-26-2012
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Re: Advise on Weight & Type of Anchor for Islander 37

Note: I have Not bought my anchors yet. I was talking about the Danforth because it's the 1st anchor that I read about, have not bought anything. My Islander 37 is being delivered on the 31st. The I-37 will not be in the water until April 2013. I will focus on all the (1st) important items -- needs Rudder repaired, needs 4 in. x 4 in. hole repaired that was cause by a accident (Hurricane). Next, go over the boat... top to bottom and make a do list. I talked to the owner a couple days ago. Now, I d know the boat faily well (thru him). He thinks it's ready to go after the rudder and the small hole is patched, he spent $ 20K on the boat (engine, drive, etc.).

Please bear with me, new guys to sailing .. ain't too brilliant. I have a note book 3/8 inch thick, started the 20th of Oct., the day I bought the I37.

Thanks,

Avery

So, I'm zeroing in one, two or three anchors I need for my boat. The Islander was sold without it's anchors. The Modern Designs are the answer, according to everyones vote's (above) with Mantus, Rocna and Manson Supreme as best choice. I'm really green and smiling.. when I read about the -- lunch, evening, storm anchoring (smiling, like a dummy) but I get the concept.
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  #22  
Old 10-26-2012
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Re: Advise on Weight & Type of Anchor for Islander 37

highfly, be very careful with the rudder. Once a rudder starts to fail, it fails in very clever ways, sometimes years down the line. If there is any penetration of the skin, any slight hairline crack, any failure of the seal where the rudderpost enters the skin, then water gets it, worked by the pressure from thermal cycling. Once the core gets wet it can take an incredible long time, months in hot dry air, and still not dry out. Then the problem is that the stainless rudder post, usually welded to a flat iron armature in the rudder, starts to corrode. Not simple rust, but the anoxic crevice corrossion that damp stainless suffers from, which is pretty much invisible until the day it suddenly fails.

You want to make Real Damn Sure that rudder is dry, and if necessary, rebuilt. Rebuilding them is not cheap, and there aren't many places who'll even touch the job. OTOH if you'll always be someplace where the loss of a rudder and a tow isn't a problem...there's less to worry about. You'll find other threads about rudders, failure, damage, if you want to pursue that someplace, rather than go OT here.
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  #23  
Old 10-27-2012
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Re: Advise on Weight & Type of Anchor for Islander 37

I should have specified -- the rudder was damaged in the storm. What happened, the boat broke free from it's morring. 2nd part of story, the boat keeled over (somewhat) when the tide went out. When the salvage crew righted the boat with air bags, the rudder was at a angle. The rudder was damaged, about 2 foot was busted off the bottom. I looked at the rudder on Monday. I had the yard master verify rudder travel as I ran the wheel through full travel (left/right). He did not see any sign of canting or anything wrong from a visual standpoint. I'm Not sure yet, the shaft may be bent. I will know this when I have time to check the rudder out (100%) at home. When I check it again, I'll straight edge & measure it as needed to verify condition. After removal, I'll determine if it's repairable or not. I have found -- 1 or 2 places that are highly recommended; will repair or replace the rudder for (est.) $ 1,000.00. I may do the job myself, capable of making/ repairing this rudder &, have a fully tooled shop.

Thanks for the Heads Up,

Avery
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Old 10-27-2012
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Re: Advise on Weight & Type of Anchor for Islander 37

A fully tooled shop, that's cheating. (G)

Forigve me is this is old news but assuming the piece that broke off is gone, you may also want to track down abother I37 in order to carefully match rudder shape. If the shape is not 100% the balance will change and some of the Islanders had exceptionally fine balance, worth trying to keep.
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Old 10-27-2012
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Re: Advise on Weight & Type of Anchor for Islander 37

I'm a aviation mechanic and built my own plane from plans in 1991. I did not realize that the Rudder was on boats were / or can be a Tuned Item. I'm going to try to find another I37MS owner and get rudder measurements. I did not pay attention to my rudder, to check if it had taper or is a straight run rudder from top to bottom.

So, I'm looking for another I-37 MS owner to let me know what the I37 rudder measurments are ____________ ? The boat needs to be out of water or measurement had been recorded before (when boat was in dry dock) otherwise it will be a little bit wet to get them (little joke).

I talked to the previous owner about the Rudder. He said, it's an effective Rudder, he had No complaint, including reverse. He said, he'd cut about 8 to 9 inches off the bottom. not return it to it's 100% size. I asked why, he said that the Rudder was always at risk with it's (nearly) 6 ft. draft. He was always at risk to hitting the bottom of the Rudder. The rudder was very effective and he had verified this (again) when he bought the boat in FL. He was caught in a storm back to Gulf Port, MS with a 50 knot winds and heavy sea conditions. I did not say anything but did get his point about the rudder at risk (6 ft.) and subject to getting hit all the time. I don't know if taking 8 or 9 inches off... was a good idea or Not ?!? I know in the aircraft repair world, I'd never be authorized to change one thing about the rudder (never) or anything else on a aircraft. However, aircraft have a fine line of balance (center of gravity & control response) and subject to crashing if you screw it up.

Information from yard master, he motored the boat home from Gulf Port to his yard in Biloxi with 2 feet busted off. He said, it worked OK, but he would not take it out in weather conditions. He thought that the boat would sail (motor) just fine to Panama City, FL. He said, I would save $$$ on the trucking expense and the cost of demasting the boat. I said, I would not chance it and wanted the boat 100% before it went anywhere.

So, I get your point and will make sure that the new rudder or repaired rudder is very close to the old rudders exact size & airfoil shape. I was sent a great article & picture of his new ( not for I37)rudder from two of the members, see my other post on needing a rudder repaired on Islander 37.

Avery

Last edited by HighFly_27; 10-27-2012 at 08:36 AM. Reason: mistake
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  #26  
Old 10-27-2012
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Re: Advise on Weight & Type of Anchor for Islander 37

Oh, one of those guys who complains every time a pilot brings back an airplane in "used" condition. (VBG) No, seriously...you sound very much aware of the issues. The keel and rudder are just two airfoils (the hull actually is a third) on a boat and even now that there are computers, the art of tuning all three to make a boat sweet instead of a mule is partly black art.

I don't know about the I37, do know some Beneteaus are notorious for having a rudder that is deeper than the keel and as such, a real danger for grounding damage. I wouldn't want a rudder deeper than the keel, but I'd be loathe to chop one down. If I was going to tackle that kind of problem, I think I'd make the keel deeper rather than chop the rudder.

Consider, as you heel the boat the rudder effectively becomes shorter, it doesn't extend down into clear undisturbed water, and with some boats that means you lose steerage one you heel over too far. Steering balance, sail balance, these are all three dimensional multi-variable euqations on a boat, or four-dimensional as they also change with speed.

Some rudders certainly CAN be improved. With potential rudder post damage and fully two feet busted off, and no way to know if the internal armature was still firmly attached versus beginning to come off the post...Trucking would definitely be the more conservative way to go.

It is also possible that you might find a used rudder from a consigment shop or breaker's yard. I don't know any good lists but you might try Sailorman in Fort Lauderdale, there's another one in Tampa/St.P. I can't remember the name of, sometimes you get lucky and someone can drum up the part.

Or I suppose you could drop the rudder, ship it home by motor freight, rebuild it and then ship it back before sailing the boat home. Between shipping costs and time...trucking the boat home might be the way to go, so the rest can be done without any rushes or risks.

Having been up close and personal with the "professional" replacement of a rudder by a certain leading name company in that business, I can only say be careful. The difference between a certified aviation mechanic and a shadetree greasemonkey comes to mind. (G)
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Old 10-27-2012
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Re: Advise on Weight & Type of Anchor for Islander 37

HelloSailor,

1st of all good advice & insight ref. I37 rudder.

I'm too far down the road in regard to motoring home or trucking it. I had the dropped mast down and the cashier's check is sent out. The boat needs TLC and I don't know the boat either.. it was a easy choice to ship it home. I see hours & hours of work to be done over a 5 month period. The boat will be parked next to my shop, 150 yards from my house.

Regarding the rudder, I will continue to gain information. Hopefully, I can connect with another I37 owner and get the measurements I need. Also, contact the larger salvage yards and see what comes up. From what I read.. the I37 Islanders are not that common.

Thanks a lot,

Avery
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Old 10-27-2012
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Re: Advise on Weight & Type of Anchor for Islander 37

On my 35 foot 13000# boat, I have a 48# CQR, a 48# Bruce, a 25# CQR, and a smaller Danforth for a "lunch"anchor. My rode is 3/4" 3-strand nylon (have many hundreds of feet aboard) and a 60' 3/8" chain leader. I think the 3/8" chain is a must as are the over-sized anchors. There is no guesswork. They set, they hold. Screwing around with minimal sized ground gear is asking for trouble sooner or later. Next season I plan on buying a 45# Mantus and increasing to 200' of chain as well. Being able to sleep at night is important when you're cruising.

As far as a "storm" anchor, I always have my eye out for a Luke or equivalent "Fisherman's" type anchor for a good price. For odd grassy or rocky bottoms they work well. I used to have one on a previous boat. It saved my butt a couple of times. Wish I still had one. Probably a 75# would do on your boat.
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Last edited by smurphny; 10-27-2012 at 08:18 PM. Reason: more
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Re: Advise on Weight & Type of Anchor for Islander 37

Quote:
As a note, you will find many CQRs for sale (or in the dumpster), avoid at all cost. They are the (by far) worst (yet popular) anchor ever produced
A genuine CQR is an acceptable anchor if a tad heavier than others for the same holding power. I would by no means say they are the worst anchors. Cheap knock-offs of CQR's are sometimes lousy anchors. I kept one for use as an Angel for a while--but it ended up in a dumpster eventually when I made a better one. For me the only acceptable copy of a genuine CQR is a Manson. I have used one of these without problems but it weighs over sixty pounds--and I have it shackled to 200 feet of 13mm chain and 400feet of 20mm nylon hard laid rode. My vessel weight about seven tons with stores and some water aboard.
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Old 10-28-2012
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Re: Advise on Weight & Type of Anchor for Islander 37

HighFly

On my I37ms I have an Fortress FX32, 60' of 3/8 chain and 400' of 3/4" three strand as a stowed storm anchor. A #44 Bruce for rocks and mud, and a #35 delta for sand and shifting wind areas with 320' of 5/16 chain on the bow, and a small danforth as a stern anchor.
I also have a 35lb CQR in the garden

If I could start from scratch, I would do what chucklesR said.
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