HMS Bounty in trouble...

[Hartley18]

Originally Posted by Capt.Mhack

I'm surprised they only had 2 reliable pumps pumping 300 gpm or less, and No manual pumps, i think few manual pumps would have helped in case like this..

So... Manual pumps aren't required by maritime law in the USA??

[MarkofSeaLife]

Originally Posted by Hartley18

So... Manual pumps aren't required by maritime law in the USA??

Of course not! Whats a manual bilge pump gunna do on a 1000 foot cruise ship? Or 1000 foot oli tanker?

Or on the bounty when it was leaking 800 gallons per minute... 48,000 gallons per hour?

[Capt.Mhack]

Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife

Of course not! Whats a manual bilge pump gunna do on a 1000 foot cruise ship? Or 1000 foot oli tanker?

Or on the bounty when it was leaking 800 gallons per minute... 48,000 gallons per hour?

Well the only had 2 electrical pumps 150 (max) each, they could have used 5 manual gusher 30 to have 150 gpm extra.. Looks like 16 people on board only 1-2 dealing with pumps..

[PCP]

Originally Posted by Capt.Mhack

Please correct me if I'm wrong -

1. No timeline was established but it is known one engine run out of fuel rest short circuited when water was high enough, which was rather quickly.

2. 5 pumps:

- 2 electrical 150 gpm - main system 208V, connected to 2" pipe

- 2 hydraulic 800 gpm each rated if connected to 4" pipe, they were not.
Hydraulic system can only run 1 at a time they were connected to much smaller pipe ~ 250 gpm

Bounty leak rate was estimated at 800 gpm, pumps as configured could pump 550 gpm ( 2 electric + 1 hydraulic )

Nobody was trained on hydraulic pumps, they were not tested and hard to start.

Last pump was a gas pump that didn't work as it was not used in 2 years.

3. Nobody was trained on hydraulic pumps or gas.

It seems to me that the one designed to be the main was the hydraulic one but I am a bit confused. For what I have understood there were two hydraulic pumps, one for each engine, drive directly. So why do you say that only one could be drive at any given time?

Yes, it seems you are correct. No timeline regarding the last engine going out of service. Anyway I seem to recall that when the last electric pumps stooped to work (short circuit) no ship engine was working, except one of the generators.

I find odd that at this time of the inquiry the time table of events is not yet completely clear.

Regards

Paulo

[Capt.Mhack]

Originally Posted by PCP

It seems to me that the one designed to be the main was the hydraulic one but I am a bit confused. For what I have understood there were two hydraulic pumps, one for each engine, drive directly. So why do you say that only one could be drive at any given time?

Yes, it seems you are correct. No timeline regarding the last engine going out of service. Anyway I seem to recall that when the last electric pumps stooped to work (short circuit) no ship engine was working, except one of the generators.

I find odd that at this time of the inquiry the time table of events is not yet completely clear.

Regards

Paulo

Well, it looks like electric were primary.

Hydraulic were secondary.

The problem with them is the way the designer/surveyor friend of the captain installed them.

One was hardwired to the 2" pipe ( instead of 4") and the other to 3" flexible hose instead of 4".

Also they both were driven by hydraulic fluid pump on 1 engine. This pump was 9gpm which was enough to drive just 1 pump at a time. There was no way to run both at the same time.

For the timeline - each crew member gave estimates of the time, but at the end of each day 1st mate was allowed to "question" them and he asked questions like "Could it be that you stood 8-12 watch instead of 16-20?" You see what he was doing it was very transparent..

[Smier]

Chef kind of touched on my question earlier when he mentioned not enough qualified/trained crew... How many crew(qualified) should a ship of this size have had realistically? 16 total crew members seems kind of small in my mind. Then you factor in the weather, their actual skill levels, and injuries...

[MarkofSeaLife]

Originally Posted by Smier

Chef kind of touched on my question earlier when he mentioned not enough qualified/trained crew... How many crew(qualified) should a ship of this size have had realistically? 16 total crew members seems kind of small in my mind. Then you factor in the weather, their actual skill levels, and injuries...

Thats the interesting thing about the shuffling of the displacement of the vessel! Because they changed something to bring it back under 300 tons they didnt need any qualified crew.

This hearing is finding what could be lies upon lies that force fitted this vessel into one the USCG never had the ability to properly inspect and never needed to be surveyed for the level ship she was actually.

Thats why this hearing is intriguing. And that we had previously brought up all these points in this thread!

If it is found to be deception on part of people still alive there may be a referal for criminal proceedings. Thats probably why the owner is not answering questions at this hearing.

To answer your question specifically they should have had a marine qualified engineer, mate and second mate... at least!

[PCP]

Originally Posted by Capt.Mhack

Well, it looks like electric were primary.

Hydraulic were secondary.

The problem with them is the way the designer/surveyor friend of the captain installed them.

One was hardwired to the 2" pipe ( instead of 4") and the other to 3" flexible hose instead of 4".

Also they both were driven by hydraulic fluid pump on 1 engine. This pump was 9gpm which was enough to drive just 1 pump at a time. There was no way to run both at the same time.

For the timeline - each crew member gave estimates of the time, but at the end of each day 1st mate was allowed to "question" them and he asked questions like "Could it be that you stood 8-12 watch instead of 16-20?" You see what he was doing it was very transparent..

I didn't say they were the primary system I had said they were designed to be the primary system

Something was very wrong with that set up. Two pumps run by the same engine that could only run one is crazy...and the boat had two engines. If the pumps were correctly installed, run one by each engine, with adequate piping, that would be the primary system with a capacity vastly superior to the electric one.

Previously the ship had as main pumping system a diesel one and the electric one as auxiliary. Then they stayed with the electric one and substituted the Diesel one by the hydraulic one. It seems to me that should be the main one, if not castrated by a ridiculous installation.

I don't know what is worse, if that or the electrical system of the boat with all those connections low on the bilge were in case of flooding the water would short circuit everything.

Regards

Paulo

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by Smier

Chef kind of touched on my question earlier when he mentioned not enough qualified/trained crew... How many crew(qualified) should a ship of this size have had realistically? 16 total crew members seems kind of small in my mind. Then you factor in the weather, their actual skill levels, and injuries...

That's the whole thing this entire debacle was doomed from the very beginning. The more the testimony goes on the more horrified I am. I though I was horrified by what I saw on the rails a BHS, but it pales in comparison to the rest of what Ive seen in these hearings.......


MY OPINION HERE:

*Unqualified/inexperienced crew
*Rotted & completely unsafe vessel
*Gross & egregious levels of cost cutting (DAP 33 etc)
*Skirting/avoidance of the "rules"
*Lack of proper maintenance
*Lack of proper funding
*Lack of a ships engineer who knew enough about the systems on-board
*Lack of experienced crew who knew how to use critical safety equipment/systems (pumps)
*A captain with too much faith/love/ignorance for his ship to see the forest for the trees.
*A bunch of hobbyists who idolized their captain like a cult and could not see the forest because the TREE (read captain) obliterated their view.

And above all else...

*A COMPLETE AND UTTER LACK OF ANY COMMON SENSE

The captain is STILL 100% at fault but there were way more contributing factors than I ever imagined possible.....

[Capt.Mhack]

Honestly it is just beyond incompetence.
As I was hearing "engineer" who had NO idea what engine horsepower rating was.. Or what fuel consumption was..

Surveyor designed a pump system that was connected to much smaller pipes which restricted flow to 1/4 of gph..

Overall it seems like they are all in the state of denial of what happened and what were they doing..

Navigator who didn't know where the hurricane was or what/when/why they changed course..

Possible explanation of course that they very well aware of all of this but circled the wagons and are playing dumb.