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  #51  
Old 10-29-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoalFinder View Post
That's a very good point. If the crew were indeed kids then there's really no possible way to defend going to sea. From the reports I've read, it has not been mentioned that the crew were kids. I have read that this ship is often used for that, but my understanding is that this ship was just pulled from drydock for repairs. I was under the impression that a professional crew was bringing her to St. Pete


If this were professional crew, they could have refused to sail unless they were in agreement they had a sound plan. Professional crew aren't conscripts.

If these were kids, then I have to wonder why the parents allowed them to go. That's a very different scenario.
Thought I read either in news blurbs or in this thread that some students were aboard. I certainly HOPE there were none.
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  #52  
Old 10-29-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
According to the workboat.com website the boat was just relaunched at Boothbay Harbor Shipyard 10/22/12 after some routine maintenance. There is a video of the launch and some video of the Bounty at sea in some heavy weather. Seems like they got pretty far south quick. They have been talking about Sandy for quite awhile. Something does not make sense.

HMS Bounty launched at Boothbay Harbor Shipyard - WorkBoat.com
Looks like in the video from an earlier sail they were heeling over to 45 degrees or so. Do these ships rely on form stability more than a keeled sailboat? Just wondering if they would have been getting worried with heeling over that much.
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  #53  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post

That boat should not be there.
Yup, it's as simple as that...

Quote:


Picton Castle captain questions Bounty being at sea during storm

October 29, 2012 - 11:08am

BRIDGEWATER – The captain of the Picton Castle says he cannot understand why The Bounty was at sea when a massive hurricane was forecast to hit.

Indeed, Dan Moreland postponed leaving Lunenburg more than a week ago precisely because of Hurricane Sandy.

“It was an easy decision to make. It’s black and white, there are no nuances with this. It’s a huge system and that made the decision very simple,” he said.

Moreland said he has known Robin Walbridge , the long-time captain of The Bounty, for years and he is an experienced seaman.

But Moreland said he was shocked Walbridge decided to sail given the forecast.

“Yes, I have to say yes, I can’t say anything else. When I first heard The Bounty was out there I thought, ‘You’ve got to be kidding,’ ” Moreland said.

He said there was very good information on the storm well in advance.

“I don’t understand this one at all,” Moreland said. “This is a huge system, there is no way of avoiding this, there’s no dodging and weaving around it.”

He said he is sorry two crew members are missing.

Moreland understands the agony of losing a crew member. Laura Gainey, a deckhand aboard Picton Castle, was swept overboard during rough seas in December 2006 and her body was never recovered.

In Feburary 2010, the Lunenburg-based Concordia sank in a storm off the coast of Brazil. All 64 students and staff were rescued after spending 40 hours in life rafts.

Moreland said The Bounty’s crew will be facing horrendous conditions in life rafts right now, and that rescuing them by air is a “very desperate measure,” something he described as “a last possible option.”

At this time, 14 people were being airlifted from the scene and he said conditions would be rough. “They’ll be whopped around and feeling every wave.”

Moreland expects The Bounty’s sinking to rightly come under intense scrutiny.

“When you lose a ship there are some pretty obvious questions out of this. It’s pretty horrible and the big question is, the decision to go.”

Picton Castle captain questions Bounty being at sea during storm | The Chronicle Herald
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  #54  
Old 10-29-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barquito View Post
Looks like in the video from an earlier sail they were heeling over to 45 degrees or so.
That gave me a knot in the pit of my stomach. At one point it looked like they buried the rail, not an easy thing to do with that freeboard.
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  #55  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barquito View Post
Looks like in the video from an earlier sail they were heeling over to 45 degrees or so. Do these ships rely on form stability more than a keeled sailboat? Just wondering if they would have been getting worried with heeling over that much.
I have read that the plans of the original boat were used to make the replica. If it is the case sailing this boat has little in common with sailing a modern big yacht, especially in bad weather: it is more dangerous,very tricky and demands masters of a lost art. As modern boats are not sailed the same way, and I mean in bad weather, sailing experience can be of little help if it is not experience to sail these kind of boats.

Regarding your question, this boat, contrary to a modern big yacht, will not right itself up from a knock down. I don't now what is the AVS (the point of no return) but I suspect it should be between 65 and 70º.

This means that the usual normal tactic on a yacht to carry storm sails to have the boat controlled and "tied" to a side is a tricky one on these boats: On a modern yacht, a violent gust will just heel the boat violently and then the boat will return to its feet. Not on one of those. That means in this case a non return capsize and a lost boat.

This means a completely different approach: while on a modern sailboat the wind on its sails will prevent it to roll, on an old tall ships roll is its worst enemy because they can carry little sail in bad weather (or no sail at all) and they can get in synchronicity with the waves, increasing that roll till be over the AVS point.

On these boats it is essential to have the boat steady and prevent rolling to the point were a stiff boat can be dangerous (it will roll more). Old salts on these boats were known to hoist weight to the masts to reduce roll. That evidently cause another problem because diminishes the AVS and the non return point.

Tricky, has I have said and a very specialized kind of sailing.

Regards

Paulo
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  #56  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

The original square-riggers were either workboats like whalers or men-o-war. They were loaded to the gills with ballast. They had extra chain, rope, cannon, powder, shot, sails, huge supplies of water, food, and supplies, all stuffed as low as possible and balanced carefully to trim the ship so it would sail well. They had to carry supplies for every contingency since they were likely to be out for many months at a time. Unloaded, they are pretty obviously top-heavy. A couple of 2000# diesels is some weight but nothing compared to a fully loaded, fully manned 17th century square-rigger. These boats also made tons of leeway. Going up on a lee shore was a common occurrence. With no keel to speak of, captains had to give land masses much more room than boats of today. This boat may not have had much control over how far they were from shore.
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Last edited by smurphny; 10-29-2012 at 06:43 PM.
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  #57  
Old 10-29-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Coast Guard just announced that they have recovered another survivor from the HMS Bounty. No details on the condition or identity of the survivor yet. Keep praying for the second part of the miracle!
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  #58  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

1 recovered 1 still missing.... Claudene was the one quoted by her mother in the early report from CBC that she had phoned home "just in case something happened"


PORTSMOUTH, Va. — The Coast Guard recovered the body of a woman and continues to search for a man missing in the Atlantic Ocean approximately 90 miles southeast of Hatteras, N.C., Monday.

Recovered was:

•Claudene Christian, 42
Missing is:

•Robin Walbridge, 63
A crew aboard an MH-60 Jayhawk helicopter from Coast Guard Air Station Elizabeth City, N.C., located Christian who was unresponsive, hoisted her into the helicopter and took her to Albemarle Hospital in Elizabeth City.


UPDATE: Coast Guard rescues 14, recovers 1, continues search for 1 from HMS Bounty
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Oh, so sad. RIP Claudine. Condolences to her family and friends...
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

I just read a very sweet article about Claudene Christian, the deceased crew member from the Bounty. It turns out she was the great great great great great granddaughter of Fletcher Christian, the mate of the original Bounty...
Bounty victim was mutineer
How eerie is that?
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