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  #21  
Old 10-31-2012
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Re: Sailing Darwin awards

Good judgement is a necessary attribute for a good skipper of a boat. An intelligent person, even one who makes a mistake learns from his mistake. Admitting a mistake is a sign of intelligence and judgement. A person with poor judgement should sell their boat now and never consider advising anybody on anything nautical lest they cause death. This really is a matter of life and death so one has to be careful who they listen to.

I simply object to anybody telling how they "rode out the storm aboard their boat" because it gives others the false impression that that is a reasonable course of action.
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  #22  
Old 10-31-2012
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Re: Sailing Darwin awards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogwatch View Post
Good judgement is a necessary attribute for a good skipper of a boat. An intelligent person, even one who makes a mistake learns from his mistake. Admitting a mistake is a sign of intelligence and judgement. A person with poor judgement should sell their boat now and never consider advising anybody on anything nautical lest they cause death. This really is a matter of life and death so one has to be careful who they listen to.

I simply object to anybody telling how they "rode out the storm aboard their boat" because it gives others the false impression that that is a reasonable course of action.
Whoa, hold on sport. I never advised anyone to "ride it out" on their boat. I cannot objectively assess someone else's boat, skill, experience or confidence level. I would never advise anyone to hold fast or flee.

I may tell my own story of how I stayed on my boat, but I don't tell anyone what they should do, or even imply that other people can or should follow my example.

Really though, your point of view is rather extreme. I have a friend in the area who sold all of his property and possessions, and bought a Halberg-Rassy 53. He is cruising with his wife and two young children. They rode out the storm at anchor. The boat is their home.

Is he a fool? Not worthy of rescue? Should he have rented a slip and fled for a hotel, far inland? Did he put his family at an unacceptable level of risk?
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  #23  
Old 10-31-2012
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Re: Sailing Darwin awards

As someone said earlier, there are many variables.

I once rode out a 'nor easter on my boat, but there is a HUGE difference between the 50-60 mph gusts I experienced and the 80+ mph gusts of a hurricane. And lets not forget hurricane winds are accompanied by a storm surge.

I don't think riding out this storm in a well found 53 foot boat in Annapolis is Darwin material. But I don't think it would have been wise to try it in any boat with any level of experience along the Jersey shore during this storm. In fact I talked a gentleman out of doing exactly that in our marina.

It's a matter of degree.
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  #24  
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Re: Sailing Darwin awards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogwatch View Post
A person with poor judgement should sell their boat now and never consider advising anybody on anything nautical lest they cause death.

Go get 'em kiddo! You just erased every boat from the water.
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Old 10-31-2012
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Re: Sailing Darwin awards

I try to maintain a live and let live philosophy. If you make a bad decision, you live with it. That said, we all surely hope to learn from our experiences. I think it is significant that almost all who ride hurricane force winds and surge out in a boat choose not to repeat the experience. This is my story:

In 1979, I was a LTJG stationed aboard the USS Harry E. Yarnell, CG-17, in the shipyard at Charleston, SC for a complex overhaul. While there, Hurricane David struck nearby while our engines were out and our boilers were disassembled. Since we could not go anywhere the Navy recalled the crew for the duration. The yard pulled the camels since they might poke a hole in the skin of the ship and we rode it out tied to the pier. Not content with the sounding and security watch, we inspected all open spaces below water level every 10 minutes. When the winds were above 70 kts we rocked and rolled 30 degrees and more, even as sheltered as we were. If it moves a 550 ft ship with a 55 foot beam like that, I assure you I will NEVER ride hurricane force anything out on my boat!
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  #26  
Old 10-31-2012
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Re: Sailing Darwin awards

Have stayed with the boat through two hurricanes, Iniki and Eva, in Honolulu. Probably would not do it again.
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  #27  
Old 10-31-2012
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Re: Sailing Darwin awards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogwatch View Post
I simply object to anybody telling how they "rode out the storm aboard their boat" because it gives others the false impression that that is a reasonable course of action.
You had better put down that book then.
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  #28  
Old 10-31-2012
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Re: Sailing Darwin awards

"Sailing Darwin Award"
What is this...riding it out has nothing to do with Darwin Awards. People live, people die, people have fun, people do not have fun, people do what they must, people avoid doing what they must, people have stories to tell, people do not have stories to tell and those that don't might what to do something about that. We live our lives as best we can and hopefully we push them to the max lest we die early. Shiiit's going to happen and all we can do is our best and in the meantime we attempt things to better ourselves...that's what we do. We think we can so we do! We try not to put ourselves and others in danger but we still go forward [edit: replaced "do" with "go forward" for better clarity]...there is no line.

edit: Of course when I say we, I speak from a personal view but the main point is that we all differ and we all set our own limits.
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Last edited by Bilgewater; 10-31-2012 at 11:41 PM.
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  #29  
Old 10-31-2012
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Re: Sailing Darwin awards

It depends on the particular situation. There are too many variables to set some sort of mindless rule designed for the least capable sailor. Not all storms require abandoning your boat. Some people are capable of making that call on their own.
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Old 11-01-2012
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Re: Sailing Darwin awards

Quote:
I propose we give the sailing Darwin Awards to everybody who stayed on their boats thru Sandy ( I mean those in Sandy's zone of damage). If you stay aboard, nobody thinks you are brave, we think you're a moron. You endanger your life, you endanger any rescuers and you make sailors in general look foolish- Frogwatch
Didnt take long for the judgement police of SN to voice their opinions. Whos annointed you god to judge. Great commentary from an internet jockey sitting behind a computer. You have no right to use the word "we" amd you certainly dont speak for all sailors.

Quote:
Dismissing those who make mistakes as being unworthy is imho the mark of the unworthy. Its a nasty attitude indeed.=tdw
I agree wholeheartedly with the exception that I dont feel I made a mistake and monitored the situation carefully.


I stayed on my boat in my slip and was in no immediate danger other than their were high winds. I watched the storm carefully and had the oppertunity to step off at any time. The storm passed north of my area sparing us the tidal surge, but not the wind and rain. In addition I helped others out during the storm who had boats in our club. The decision to stay with my boat and not have it wrecked and battered needlessly was mine. I am sure bubblehead, SV Auspicious, Joethecobbler and others who were south of the landfall were prudent in knowing what we were doing. There were no evacuations in our area. Had we been in the north targhet zone at any time I would have just stayed and slept in our clubhouse and not on the boat.

Mr Frog...your sweeping statement has no merit, is not funny and shoud be dismissed as the musings of someone who obvious and lack of ability or experience to understand the difference between a difficult situation from what is a dangerous situation and then make a catchall sweeping all inclusive statement.

In my case, and others on the Chesapeake where others did stay on our boats it was a decision which was fluid and could be changed easily had things turned for the worse. I would never suggest, nor advise someone who did not feel or did not have the ability or exp[erience to stay on a boat even in the conditions we faced. That is a personal choice according to experience and situation. I for one learned a few valuable lessons staying on my boat, which if I ever get forced into a similar situation while cruising in the future may help me invaluably. I beleive in safety first and in no way did I fee unsafe.

Dave
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Last edited by chef2sail; 11-01-2012 at 03:04 AM.
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