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  #31  
Old 11-01-2012
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Re: Sailing Darwin awards

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I propose we give the sailing Darwin Awards to everybody who stayed on their boats thru Sandy ( I mean those in Sandy's zone of damage). If you stay aboard, nobody thinks you are brave, we think you're a moron. You endanger your life, you endanger any rescuers and you make sailors in general look foolish- Frogwatch
Gee lets subsitute for boat the word Staten Island...they should have all left the island right?

So you propose we give them all the Darwin awards....how insensitive. My heart goes out for them and the loss of life.
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“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
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  #32  
Old 11-01-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azguy:940989
seems harsh....I would ahve stayed on the boat, if you were well prepared it does sem anymore dangerious than staying in some of the houses I saw destroyed.

At least on the boat you could re-tighten lines and control your own fate.

IMHO
well put AZ
rush to judgement way off
way off said Buddha

enjoy the day
-JD
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  #33  
Old 11-01-2012
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Re: Sailing Darwin awards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogwatch View Post
A person with poor judgement should sell their boat now and never consider advising anybody on anything nautical lest they cause death.
What about those who cast judgment on others? Can they own a boat?

Or is it just those with good judgment who judge others to have poor judgment, who can own a boat?
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  #34  
Old 11-01-2012
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Re: Sailing Darwin awards

Wow-- how about a little lightening up. The following story was sent to me by a friend in Daytona Beach, describing how, last April, he watched a boat in the ICW run aground 5 times within 48 hours and 1-1/2 miles. A little lengthy, but a good read.

In the winter we live on the intracoastal waterway just south of a bridge in Daytona Beach. The intracoastal channel is only about 75 yards wide here. Wide enough for big boats to pass, it is marked by the typical red and green channel markers, so that you can stay in the 7 to 8 foot deep water. BUT, go a few feet to the east of the red or west of the green markers and it is only 2 feet deep.

So, Friday afternoon a lovely 40 foot Grand Banks Trawler named ‘Old Timer’ driven and crewed by two gents looking to be pretty young (50’s) motor past our condo on the way North for the summer. As they approached the bridge they wandered to the west of the green mark and just before the bridge ran hard aground – yuck! It was about 3 in the afternoon and as I sat at this computer teaching my Northwood U course, I got to observe the chaos. It was high tide, with the tide beginning to go out, so every thirty minutes or so the boat sat higher out of the water, harder aground. It was about an hour before the SeaTow boat showed up to rescue Old Timer. The SeaTow captain tied a line and began to pull. Full power on the twin engines and after about thirty minutes it was apparent that Old Timer was there until the next high tide. SeaTow motored off into the sunset and the gents on Old Timer settled in for the night. (Note for those of you who are boaters, ‘of course they did not put out an anchor, they were hard aground’). Next high tide would be at 6 am Saturday morning.
In this photo yo can see how close to the channel the shallow shoal water is. While Old Timer sits aground to the right, the boat to the left is motoring North toward the bridge in DEEP water.
When the sun came up Saturday morning, a look off our balcony showed that Old Timer had indeed floated off the shoal at high tide. But, with the wind from the west and the crew apparently still asleep, old timer blew across the deep channel and ran aground again on the east side ! By the time the guys woke, the tide was going out and they were hard aground for the 2nd time with in 16 hours J Again with in a few hours, SeaTow showed up with a boat and a line to drag them off. One hour later, SeaTow motored away again after failing to budge Old Timer from the east shoal of the Daytona Beach channel. They would have to again wait for the next high tide about 5:00 pm Saturday night.

Around 4:30 pm SeaTow again showed up with line and boat. With in fifteen minutes Old Timer was free of the shoal and floating in the channel ! SeaTow escorted them into our harbor to the fuel docks and left. About thirty minutes later the gents on Old Timer motor her out of our channel to continue their trip North. Two channel markers BEFORE the end of our channel to the intracoastal, they turned North and ran aground for the 3rd time in 26 hours!!! But, this was their lucky day as the tide was still going up and within about thirty minutes they floated free and exited to the intracoastal. We went to dinner with my great friend John Radatz.

After dinner, just before dark, a look off our balcony showed that the gents aboard Old Timer must have been worn out form the experience, so they anchored for the night, just on the edge of the east side of the intracoastal, less than 100 yards form where they had been aground that morning, but this time on the deep side of the shoal. They put out an anchor, to the east (yes, the shallow side) and turned in.

Sunday morning at day break, a look toward Old Timer showed that a wind shift, during night, from the west had blown them TOWARD their anchor and they were hard aground for the 4th time. One of the gents got in the dinghy that they towed behind Old Timer and started working on the anchor and god knows what else, as the other gent(the dumber one) stayed at the helm of Old Timer to run the controls and steer. It was only about an hour and they freed themselves from the shoal and gent number two motored the boat off the shoal into the 7 foot channel. While gent #1 in the dingy tried and tried to free the anchor that they had set the night before, gent #2 at the helm, put Old Timer into neutral and went below. As the wind blew the boat back into the shallow water, with no one at the helm, the guy working with the dingy lost the painter and the dinghy began to blow away. RUNNING in water only as deep as his knees, he ran down the escaping dinghy as Old Timer, with no one driving, blew behind him, back onto the shoal.
Old Timer aground for the fifth time awiats the Sunday evening hige tide, just across from our condo balcony.
By 11 am Sunday Old Timer sat hard aground, ten feet from the intracoastal channel, for the 5th time in less than 48 hours, all within the same mile and a half in Daytona Beach. As I finish this writing, Old Timer is aground and awaiting the next high tide at 7 pm tonight, Sunday.
chef2sail and wingNwing like this.
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  #35  
Old 11-01-2012
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Re: Sailing Darwin awards

msmith, I'm sure the guys on Old Timer didn't appreciate it while they were in the situation, but to me this read like the best slapstick comedy I've seen in a while. I needed the laugh; thank you.
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  #36  
Old 11-01-2012
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Re: Sailing Darwin awards

Good story but isn't this "BUT, go a few feet to the east of the red or west of the green markers and it is only 2 feet deep." backwards?
But then again I have stayed on the MC for a few storms so maybe my brain is scrambled. Dan S/V Marian Claire
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  #37  
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Re: Sailing Darwin awards

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Originally Posted by marianclaire View Post
Good story but isn't this "BUT, go a few feet to the east of the red or west of the green markers and it is only 2 feet deep." backwards?
This was a separate channel, I believe, heading into the main ICW channel.
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  #38  
Old 11-01-2012
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Re: Sailing Darwin awards

The only thing I've ever heard that someone was able to do to help the boat when onboard during a major storm was to "power up on the gear" to take some strain off the ground tackle. Even then, I'd think the chance of getting some debris wrapped around your shaft would outweigh any potential benefit.

I'm with the "Prepare and get out" crowd.
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  #39  
Old 11-01-2012
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Re: Sailing Darwin awards

Had I not been there, the lines holding my boat to the piers would have at first been ok, because there were two blowout tides followed by two tides with a surge of 3 feet. In addition the wind shift 270 degrees in the course of the 42 hours. I was able to prevent chafing on three of my 14 lines by shifting the chafe gaurds i was using. The range on my lines was as much as 5 ft through the chocks and my material is only 2+ ft long. My determination is that had I not been there my boat would have been damage as were some in my club which we could not get to during the storm.

Staying or evacuating was determined by the hour by hour conditions. If at anytime there was a shift in the conditions which would have placed me on the north side of the eye area I would have come off the boat to the clubhouse which was 18 ft above the level of the Creek. In no way was I in imminent danger unless something catestrophic happened, which could also have happened had I been on land also. Unbeknownst to me 3 blocks away a man was killed sitting in his living room when a tree fell into his house and crushed him. At least I was not under any trees.

Staying or leaving is an assessemnt of the conditions and data where you are as well as experience of the individual. No blanket statement can be made that its better to stay or go. To make such a generalization is not reasonable. That is left up for the indivdual to choose. There was no evacuation in my area.

It appears the death toll is already over 80. I have not heard of any individual who has perished on their boat. The exception is the HMS Bounty where your current cast of internet Sailnet Experts are trying to affix blame and determine how it happened from the comfort of their computer desks under the guise of a "learning lesson" orteaching experience. God rest those poor peoples souls.

So the rest of the dead appear to have been caused by falling debris of some kind. By your reasoning all people should have fled inland 200 miles to a non tree filled area whwre there were no bodies of water.

Situations like this are fluid and best decided by the indivduals who are in ivolved in them rather than some group think internet pundits. BUt after all this is the internet and everyone gets and opinion...even me,

Dave
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  #40  
Old 11-01-2012
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Re: Sailing Darwin awards

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Originally Posted by MobiusALilBitTwisted View Post
Cant, not all that stay aboard die, and you must DIE to get said award. Cheers
Sorry, joining this thread late. But I thought I'd add that merely dying is not enough to qualify. You need to die without leaving any offspring. Otherwise the gene pool continues.
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